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Expert Review of route

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  • undefined Offline
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    Greenham
    wrote on 26 Jan 2025, 18:57 last edited by
    #1

    Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

    A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

    I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

    https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

    undefined undefined undefined 3 Replies Last reply 26 Jan 2025, 19:28
    0
    • undefined Greenham
      26 Jan 2025, 18:57

      Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

      A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

      I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

      https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

      undefined Offline
      undefined Offline
      Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
      Instructor RouteXperts administrator
      wrote on 26 Jan 2025, 19:28 last edited by Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
      #2

      @Greenham

      Use maximum 28 via points in a route otherwise the XT will split the route

      Why all green points?

      Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
      Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Jan 2025, 14:11
      0
      • undefined Greenham
        26 Jan 2025, 18:57

        Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

        A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

        I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

        https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

        undefined Offline
        undefined Offline
        Adrian Avram
        wrote on 27 Jan 2025, 09:18 last edited by
        #3

        @Greenham Try and use other colors and icons for different activities. Use less via points and more droplets (shaping points).
        This is how I did one of the touring days for this summer in the Swiss Alps: https://www.myrouteapp.com/en/social/route/10178038?mode=share

        Best regards,
        Adrian

        Samsung S24 Ultra and iPhone 13 with Android Auto / CarPlay
        MyRoute-APP (Planner+Navigation, GOLD Lifetime)
        Honda NC750X (2021) with CHIGEE Aio-5 Play

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        • undefined Offline
          undefined Offline
          richtea999
          wrote on 27 Jan 2025, 10:43 last edited by richtea999
          #4

          [not an expert, but like to give an opinion... 🤔 ]

          What happened to lunch?! 😋

          Points look nice and accurate, and not positioned too close to junctions, etc. Good work there.

          If you set a realistic start time like 9:00 that always helps gauge progress, and when you might want to stop for a rest/petrol, etc.

          If you're riding with others then check around point 40 for TomTom users - they may get sent a different way (west towards Afton and then north to McCormick Gap Overlook Calf Mountain Overlook - which could be a nicer alternative route, but I don't know the area).

          Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 10.41.55.png

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Jan 2025, 14:06
          0
          • undefined richtea999
            27 Jan 2025, 10:43

            [not an expert, but like to give an opinion... 🤔 ]

            What happened to lunch?! 😋

            Points look nice and accurate, and not positioned too close to junctions, etc. Good work there.

            If you set a realistic start time like 9:00 that always helps gauge progress, and when you might want to stop for a rest/petrol, etc.

            If you're riding with others then check around point 40 for TomTom users - they may get sent a different way (west towards Afton and then north to McCormick Gap Overlook Calf Mountain Overlook - which could be a nicer alternative route, but I don't know the area).

            Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 10.41.55.png

            undefined Offline
            undefined Offline
            Greenham
            wrote on 27 Jan 2025, 14:06 last edited by
            #5

            @richtea999
            Thanks for looking at what I had.

            This is just day 1 of the trip. Day 2 I stay and do some sightseeing , and day 3 I haven't posted yet. I wanted to use the advice on this segment.

            I thought about the route you highlighted. But this goes through some of the hard hit areas from last years Hurricane. Thats why I avoided getting onto the BRP sooner.

            I'm traveling solo and basically any fuel stations after 100 miles is getting a visit

            1 Reply Last reply
            1
            • undefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
              26 Jan 2025, 19:28

              @Greenham

              Use maximum 28 via points in a route otherwise the XT will split the route

              Why all green points?

              undefined Offline
              undefined Offline
              Greenham
              wrote on 27 Jan 2025, 14:11 last edited by
              #6

              @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

              This brings me back to the GARMIN ZUMO XT and how it reacts to these routes.

              When you import the route and then start the route it "calculates" the route based on its own Garmin algorithms.

              As I understand Via vs Shaping points. Garmin IGNORS Shaping points and ONLY cares about VIA points during its calculations when importing the route. That why so many VIA points.

              I'm trying to stay on a fairly specific set of roads. If I reduce VIA points won't/can't Garmin then pick the roads that will most quickly get me to the next VIA point.?

              Maybe I have it wrong

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 27 Jan 2025, 16:04
              0
              • undefined Greenham
                27 Jan 2025, 14:11

                @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                This brings me back to the GARMIN ZUMO XT and how it reacts to these routes.

                When you import the route and then start the route it "calculates" the route based on its own Garmin algorithms.

                As I understand Via vs Shaping points. Garmin IGNORS Shaping points and ONLY cares about VIA points during its calculations when importing the route. That why so many VIA points.

                I'm trying to stay on a fairly specific set of roads. If I reduce VIA points won't/can't Garmin then pick the roads that will most quickly get me to the next VIA point.?

                Maybe I have it wrong

                undefined Offline
                undefined Offline
                Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                wrote on 27 Jan 2025, 16:04 last edited by
                #7

                @Greenham

                Shaping points (soft points) can be skipped without the Garmin sending you back to a skipped shaping point.
                You must visit via points (hard points) or skip them manually.
                Only start a route if you:
                Have a connection with at least 3 satellites,
                Are on the route or are close to the route.
                Never start a route in the garage or at the kitchen table, because then the Zumo has to calculate to your starting point.
                Again, use a maximum of 28 via points and place them at critical points or where you want to stop. For the rest, just use shaping points. I myself use a maximum of 7 via points in my route and form the route with sufficient shaping points.

                Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 28 Jan 2025, 00:11
                1
                • undefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                  27 Jan 2025, 16:04

                  @Greenham

                  Shaping points (soft points) can be skipped without the Garmin sending you back to a skipped shaping point.
                  You must visit via points (hard points) or skip them manually.
                  Only start a route if you:
                  Have a connection with at least 3 satellites,
                  Are on the route or are close to the route.
                  Never start a route in the garage or at the kitchen table, because then the Zumo has to calculate to your starting point.
                  Again, use a maximum of 28 via points and place them at critical points or where you want to stop. For the rest, just use shaping points. I myself use a maximum of 7 via points in my route and form the route with sufficient shaping points.

                  undefined Offline
                  undefined Offline
                  Greenham
                  wrote on 28 Jan 2025, 00:11 last edited by
                  #8

                  @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                  Thank you,

                  I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

                  But

                  QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

                  undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 28 Jan 2025, 06:15
                  0
                  • undefined Greenham
                    28 Jan 2025, 00:11

                    @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                    Thank you,

                    I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

                    But

                    QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

                    undefined Offline
                    undefined Offline
                    Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                    Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                    wrote on 28 Jan 2025, 06:15 last edited by
                    #9

                    @Greenham
                    Yes

                    Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                    Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • undefined Greenham
                      28 Jan 2025, 00:11

                      @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                      Thank you,

                      I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

                      But

                      QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

                      undefined Offline
                      undefined Offline
                      Marinus van Deudekom
                      RouteXperts
                      wrote on 28 Jan 2025, 12:04 last edited by
                      #10

                      @Greenham The XT has a nasty habbit of thinking it can make a better route then the one you planned. To force the XT to do what YOU want add extra shapingpoints. Use the compare function in the planning mode to see what TomTom and OSM do whit your route. It gives you a small inside of what might happen to your route if you didn't put in enough shapingpoints

                      Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                      Honda Silverwing GL 650
                      DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                      Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                      Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Jan 2025, 16:59
                      0
                      • undefined Offline
                        undefined Offline
                        Guzt
                        wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 10:00 last edited by Guzt
                        #11
                        • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                        • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                        • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                        • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                        • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                        Nick Carthewundefined undefined undefined 3 Replies Last reply 29 Jan 2025, 10:51
                        0
                        • undefined Guzt
                          29 Jan 2025, 10:00
                          • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                          • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                          • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                          • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                          • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                          Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                          Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                          Nick Carthew
                          RouteXperts Instructor
                          wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 10:51 last edited by
                          #12

                          @Guzt
                          Just for clarity, Via points are hand shaped not shaping points.

                          Always willing to help if I can.
                          Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                          MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                          Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                          Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                          TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • undefined Guzt
                            29 Jan 2025, 10:00
                            • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                            • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                            • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                            • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                            • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                            undefined Offline
                            undefined Offline
                            Marinus van Deudekom
                            RouteXperts
                            wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 12:20 last edited by
                            #13

                            @Guzt If you use recalculate on on the XT you're in for trouble. sooner or later the thing will for shure mess up your carefully planned route. The XT has a will of its own. So my advise is leave it of.
                            when using the 1.2 export using the Drive app. The route, witch must have some viapoints in it, will be shown on your XT. I alway project the track witch comes automaticly with the 1.2 export under the route so if you deviate dfrom the route you can still come back to the route using your eyes. If you have recalculate on, that would bee the chance for the XT to mess up your route and believe me it will for shure.
                            have fun

                            Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                            Honda Silverwing GL 650
                            DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                            Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                            Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Jan 2025, 21:28
                            0
                            • undefined Guzt
                              29 Jan 2025, 10:00
                              • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                              • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                              • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                              • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                              • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                              undefined Offline
                              undefined Offline
                              Greenham
                              wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 20:41 last edited by
                              #14

                              @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                              • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                              • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                              • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                              • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                              • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                              #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                              #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                              I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                              I have compared the route with TT in the past

                              #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                              #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                              undefined 2 Replies Last reply 29 Jan 2025, 21:27
                              0
                              • undefined Greenham
                                29 Jan 2025, 20:41

                                @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                                • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                                • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                                • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                                • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                                • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                                #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                                #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                                I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                                I have compared the route with TT in the past

                                #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                                #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                                undefined Offline
                                undefined Offline
                                Guzt
                                wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 21:27 last edited by
                                #15

                                @Greenham download this document from my google drive for full explanation
                                [link text]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zwt-5yrJSFWJCLw-997z3XFbFyAUY6en/view?usp=drive_link(link url)

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • undefined Marinus van Deudekom
                                  29 Jan 2025, 12:20

                                  @Guzt If you use recalculate on on the XT you're in for trouble. sooner or later the thing will for shure mess up your carefully planned route. The XT has a will of its own. So my advise is leave it of.
                                  when using the 1.2 export using the Drive app. The route, witch must have some viapoints in it, will be shown on your XT. I alway project the track witch comes automaticly with the 1.2 export under the route so if you deviate dfrom the route you can still come back to the route using your eyes. If you have recalculate on, that would bee the chance for the XT to mess up your route and believe me it will for shure.
                                  have fun

                                  undefined Offline
                                  undefined Offline
                                  Guzt
                                  wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 21:28 last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                                  undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 29 Jan 2025, 21:44
                                  0
                                  • undefined Greenham
                                    26 Jan 2025, 18:57

                                    Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

                                    A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

                                    I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

                                    https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

                                    undefined Offline
                                    undefined Offline
                                    Greenham
                                    wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 21:42 last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @Greenham

                                    This is great. I won't pretend to understand why you have to save as a track, then load it and compare with the Route, but I will do it.

                                    In the Motorcycle profile it does allow me to route optimize. Or is it doing nothing.

                                    I used Chat GPT to create an English version if you want it.

                                    THANK YOU AGAIN

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • undefined Guzt
                                      29 Jan 2025, 21:28

                                      @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                                      undefined Offline
                                      undefined Offline
                                      Greenham
                                      wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 21:44 last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @Guzt

                                      You say in the doc when downloading to Garmin to do it in. 1.1 format

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • undefined Greenham
                                        29 Jan 2025, 20:41

                                        @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                                        • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                                        • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                                        • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                                        • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                                        • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                                        #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                                        #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                                        I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                                        I have compared the route with TT in the past

                                        #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                                        #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                                        undefined Offline
                                        undefined Offline
                                        Guzt
                                        wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 21:45 last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                        You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                        When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                        undefined 2 Replies Last reply 29 Jan 2025, 22:24
                                        0
                                        • undefined Guzt
                                          29 Jan 2025, 21:45

                                          @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                          You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                          When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                          undefined Offline
                                          undefined Offline
                                          Greenham
                                          wrote on 29 Jan 2025, 22:24 last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @Guzt

                                          Thank you again. I finally did it. I used your steps and saw 1 or 2 places that the track and the rote did not align. Fixed that, changed to shortest, no issues, exported to my Garmin in 1.1 Route.Track.POI

                                          I've learned a much from you. Thank you

                                          Mike

                                          Here is the English version of your instructions

                                          https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1khcVV8Wp56ploC0WzzSaf3bm-no57mve?usp=drive_link

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                                          26 Jan 2025, 19:28

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