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Expert Review of route

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  • richtea999undefined richtea999

    [not an expert, but like to give an opinion... 🤔 ]

    What happened to lunch?! 😋

    Points look nice and accurate, and not positioned too close to junctions, etc. Good work there.

    If you set a realistic start time like 9:00 that always helps gauge progress, and when you might want to stop for a rest/petrol, etc.

    If you're riding with others then check around point 40 for TomTom users - they may get sent a different way (west towards Afton and then north to McCormick Gap Overlook Calf Mountain Overlook - which could be a nicer alternative route, but I don't know the area).

    Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 10.41.55.png

    Greenhamundefined Offline
    Greenhamundefined Offline
    Greenham
    wrote on last edited by
    #5

    @richtea999
    Thanks for looking at what I had.

    This is just day 1 of the trip. Day 2 I stay and do some sightseeing , and day 3 I haven't posted yet. I wanted to use the advice on this segment.

    I thought about the route you highlighted. But this goes through some of the hard hit areas from last years Hurricane. Thats why I avoided getting onto the BRP sooner.

    I'm traveling solo and basically any fuel stations after 100 miles is getting a visit

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

      @Greenham

      Use maximum 28 via points in a route otherwise the XT will split the route

      Why all green points?

      Greenhamundefined Offline
      Greenhamundefined Offline
      Greenham
      wrote on last edited by
      #6

      @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

      This brings me back to the GARMIN ZUMO XT and how it reacts to these routes.

      When you import the route and then start the route it "calculates" the route based on its own Garmin algorithms.

      As I understand Via vs Shaping points. Garmin IGNORS Shaping points and ONLY cares about VIA points during its calculations when importing the route. That why so many VIA points.

      I'm trying to stay on a fairly specific set of roads. If I reduce VIA points won't/can't Garmin then pick the roads that will most quickly get me to the next VIA point.?

      Maybe I have it wrong

      Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Greenhamundefined Greenham

        @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

        This brings me back to the GARMIN ZUMO XT and how it reacts to these routes.

        When you import the route and then start the route it "calculates" the route based on its own Garmin algorithms.

        As I understand Via vs Shaping points. Garmin IGNORS Shaping points and ONLY cares about VIA points during its calculations when importing the route. That why so many VIA points.

        I'm trying to stay on a fairly specific set of roads. If I reduce VIA points won't/can't Garmin then pick the roads that will most quickly get me to the next VIA point.?

        Maybe I have it wrong

        Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
        Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
        Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
        RouteXpert
        wrote on last edited by
        #7

        @Greenham

        Shaping points (soft points) can be skipped without the Garmin sending you back to a skipped shaping point.
        You must visit via points (hard points) or skip them manually.
        Only start a route if you:
        Have a connection with at least 3 satellites,
        Are on the route or are close to the route.
        Never start a route in the garage or at the kitchen table, because then the Zumo has to calculate to your starting point.
        Again, use a maximum of 28 via points and place them at critical points or where you want to stop. For the rest, just use shaping points. I myself use a maximum of 7 via points in my route and form the route with sufficient shaping points.

        Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
        Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

        Greenhamundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

          @Greenham

          Shaping points (soft points) can be skipped without the Garmin sending you back to a skipped shaping point.
          You must visit via points (hard points) or skip them manually.
          Only start a route if you:
          Have a connection with at least 3 satellites,
          Are on the route or are close to the route.
          Never start a route in the garage or at the kitchen table, because then the Zumo has to calculate to your starting point.
          Again, use a maximum of 28 via points and place them at critical points or where you want to stop. For the rest, just use shaping points. I myself use a maximum of 7 via points in my route and form the route with sufficient shaping points.

          Greenhamundefined Offline
          Greenhamundefined Offline
          Greenham
          wrote on last edited by
          #8

          @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

          Thank you,

          I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

          But

          QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Marinus van Deudekomundefined 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • Greenhamundefined Greenham

            @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

            Thank you,

            I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

            But

            QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
            RouteXpert
            wrote on last edited by
            #9

            @Greenham
            Yes

            Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
            Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Greenhamundefined Greenham

              @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

              Thank you,

              I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

              But

              QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

              Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
              Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
              Marinus van Deudekom
              Valued contributor
              wrote on last edited by
              #10

              @Greenham The XT has a nasty habbit of thinking it can make a better route then the one you planned. To force the XT to do what YOU want add extra shapingpoints. Use the compare function in the planning mode to see what TomTom and OSM do whit your route. It gives you a small inside of what might happen to your route if you didn't put in enough shapingpoints

              Honda Goldwing GL1500,
              Honda Silverwing GL 650
              DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
              Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
              Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

              Greenhamundefined 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • Guztundefined Offline
                Guztundefined Offline
                Guzt
                wrote on last edited by Guzt
                #11
                • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                Nick Carthewundefined Marinus van Deudekomundefined Greenhamundefined 3 Replies Last reply
                0
                • Guztundefined Guzt
                  • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                  • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                  • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                  • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                  • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                  Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                  Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                  Nick Carthew
                  RouteXpert
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #12

                  @Guzt
                  Just for clarity, Via points are hand shaped not shaping points.

                  Always willing to help if I can.
                  Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                  MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                  Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                  Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                  TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Guztundefined Guzt
                    • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                    • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                    • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                    • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                    • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                    Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
                    Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
                    Marinus van Deudekom
                    Valued contributor
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #13

                    @Guzt If you use recalculate on on the XT you're in for trouble. sooner or later the thing will for shure mess up your carefully planned route. The XT has a will of its own. So my advise is leave it of.
                    when using the 1.2 export using the Drive app. The route, witch must have some viapoints in it, will be shown on your XT. I alway project the track witch comes automaticly with the 1.2 export under the route so if you deviate dfrom the route you can still come back to the route using your eyes. If you have recalculate on, that would bee the chance for the XT to mess up your route and believe me it will for shure.
                    have fun

                    Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                    Honda Silverwing GL 650
                    DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                    Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                    Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                    Guztundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • Guztundefined Guzt
                      • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                      • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                      • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                      • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                      • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                      Greenhamundefined Offline
                      Greenhamundefined Offline
                      Greenham
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #14

                      @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                      • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                      • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                      • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                      • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                      • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                      #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                      #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                      I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                      I have compared the route with TT in the past

                      #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                      #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                      Guztundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                        @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                        • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                        • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                        • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                        • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                        • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                        #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                        #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                        I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                        I have compared the route with TT in the past

                        #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                        #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                        Guztundefined Offline
                        Guztundefined Offline
                        Guzt
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #15

                        @Greenham download this document from my google drive for full explanation
                        [link text]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zwt-5yrJSFWJCLw-997z3XFbFyAUY6en/view?usp=drive_link(link url)

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Marinus van Deudekomundefined Marinus van Deudekom

                          @Guzt If you use recalculate on on the XT you're in for trouble. sooner or later the thing will for shure mess up your carefully planned route. The XT has a will of its own. So my advise is leave it of.
                          when using the 1.2 export using the Drive app. The route, witch must have some viapoints in it, will be shown on your XT. I alway project the track witch comes automaticly with the 1.2 export under the route so if you deviate dfrom the route you can still come back to the route using your eyes. If you have recalculate on, that would bee the chance for the XT to mess up your route and believe me it will for shure.
                          have fun

                          Guztundefined Offline
                          Guztundefined Offline
                          Guzt
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #16

                          @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                          Greenhamundefined Marinus van Deudekomundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                            Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

                            A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

                            I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

                            https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

                            Greenhamundefined Offline
                            Greenhamundefined Offline
                            Greenham
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #17

                            @Greenham

                            This is great. I won't pretend to understand why you have to save as a track, then load it and compare with the Route, but I will do it.

                            In the Motorcycle profile it does allow me to route optimize. Or is it doing nothing.

                            I used Chat GPT to create an English version if you want it.

                            THANK YOU AGAIN

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Guztundefined Guzt

                              @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                              Greenhamundefined Offline
                              Greenhamundefined Offline
                              Greenham
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #18

                              @Guzt

                              You say in the doc when downloading to Garmin to do it in. 1.1 format

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                              0
                              • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                                • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                                • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                                • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                                • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                                • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                                #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                                #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                                I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                                I have compared the route with TT in the past

                                #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                                #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                                Guztundefined Offline
                                Guztundefined Offline
                                Guzt
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #19

                                @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                Greenhamundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • Guztundefined Guzt

                                  @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                  You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                  When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                  Greenhamundefined Offline
                                  Greenhamundefined Offline
                                  Greenham
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #20

                                  @Guzt

                                  Thank you again. I finally did it. I used your steps and saw 1 or 2 places that the track and the rote did not align. Fixed that, changed to shortest, no issues, exported to my Garmin in 1.1 Route.Track.POI

                                  I've learned a much from you. Thank you

                                  Mike

                                  Here is the English version of your instructions

                                  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1khcVV8Wp56ploC0WzzSaf3bm-no57mve?usp=drive_link

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Guztundefined Guzt

                                    @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                                    Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
                                    Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
                                    Marinus van Deudekom
                                    Valued contributor
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #21

                                    @Guzt exactly that would be my advise
                                    I see that you still use Basecamp from way back when. Keep up with up progressive planning of MRA and make the world a bit more beautifull

                                    Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                                    Honda Silverwing GL 650
                                    DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                                    Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                                    Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Guztundefined Guzt

                                      @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                      You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                      When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                      Greenhamundefined Offline
                                      Greenhamundefined Offline
                                      Greenham
                                      wrote on last edited by Greenham
                                      #22

                                      @Guzt

                                      1 last question.

                                      What do you do when the tracklog and the route don't line up, but you want to KEEP the route. I can't move the Tracklog to match.

                                      Will the Garmin follow my route or the tracklog?

                                      This is the issue with GPS's and Motorcycles. If you want to take a more scenic route will the GPS let you?

                                      Mike

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Marinus van Deudekomundefined Marinus van Deudekom

                                        @Greenham The XT has a nasty habbit of thinking it can make a better route then the one you planned. To force the XT to do what YOU want add extra shapingpoints. Use the compare function in the planning mode to see what TomTom and OSM do whit your route. It gives you a small inside of what might happen to your route if you didn't put in enough shapingpoints

                                        Greenhamundefined Offline
                                        Greenhamundefined Offline
                                        Greenham
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #23

                                        @Marinus-van-Deudekom

                                        Here is an example of what you are talking about. using @Guzt Workflow and using Tracklogs to compare your DESIRED route to the Tracklog I get these anomalies
                                        Clarksville 12025-01-30 114939.png Clarksville2 12025-01-30 114939.png Clarksville3 12025-01-30 114939.png

                                        Notice the gray line is the Tracklog the dark line is my preferred route of travel. Will these Tracklogs be the route the Zumo will take me?

                                        Finally I have this anomaly with a Tracklog/Route comparison.
                                        I've tried all kind of fixes like moving shaping points adding Via points, still get this odd occurrences. The Tracklog is Red, the route is black.

                                        aunt Lois shortest  2025-01-30 114511.png

                                        Marinus van Deudekomundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                          @Marinus-van-Deudekom

                                          Here is an example of what you are talking about. using @Guzt Workflow and using Tracklogs to compare your DESIRED route to the Tracklog I get these anomalies
                                          Clarksville 12025-01-30 114939.png Clarksville2 12025-01-30 114939.png Clarksville3 12025-01-30 114939.png

                                          Notice the gray line is the Tracklog the dark line is my preferred route of travel. Will these Tracklogs be the route the Zumo will take me?

                                          Finally I have this anomaly with a Tracklog/Route comparison.
                                          I've tried all kind of fixes like moving shaping points adding Via points, still get this odd occurrences. The Tracklog is Red, the route is black.

                                          aunt Lois shortest  2025-01-30 114511.png

                                          Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
                                          Marinus van Deudekomundefined Do not disturb
                                          Marinus van Deudekom
                                          Valued contributor
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #24

                                          @Greenham Did you get those anomalys when switching between shortest en fastest?
                                          That can only be done using the Car profile. In the bike profile you don't have that choise.
                                          For planning I stricktly use the car profile.
                                          I compare the prefered route (planned in the Here map) with the TomTom and OSM maps and make shure adding extra shaping points to the route when there's an anomaly. Then in the end when I'm satisfied and the 3 maps are alike I transfer the route to the XT, using the Drive app.
                                          I don't use any avoid items in the planner and I dopn't use any in the XT. That way the route stays the same. Make sure that recalculating in your XT is OFF.
                                          Why: although there's a lot of different opinions on this theme, if you deviate from the route, let's say there's roadworks going on and the route is blocked, and you have recalculate ON, the XT will break free from its harness, the route, and grab it's change to change your route. There's a 100% garantee that it will mess up your rouite.
                                          If you want us to say something about the anomalys you've mentioned, share such a route here and make shure it's set to public.
                                          have fun

                                          Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                                          Honda Silverwing GL 650
                                          DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                                          Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                                          Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                                          Greenhamundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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