Suggestion for announcements
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Alpha testerwrote on 14 Sept 2024, 15:32 last edited by Con Hennekens
It seems that a lot of users are misunderstanding the methodology used for announcing waypoints. For the new planner platform currently under development I have the following suggestions:
- Disable announcing the name by default (this is usually just an uninteresting address, hence the current number method)
- Announcing the name is irritating because that name changes every time you replace a waypoint, it changes back to an uninteresting address.
- Only announce the name (address) unless a checkmark is placed at "announce name"
- Users then should place the interesting info in the note, not in the name.
- Maybe the name field should be ignored in the announcements
should even be renamed to address and made unchangeable,who needs two fields for extra info anyway?
My own preferred planning method would then change to:
- Set announcements to ALL
- Enter the announcement in the notes field
- leave the "include name (or address)" field unchecked.
- An announcement is ONLY made if something is entered in the note field, or the address is spoken when the relevant checkmark is set.
This way only sensible info is announced, and no uninteresting addresses are being spoken. Users can still choose to have only VIA points or ALL waypoints announced.
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If this could be done it would make things a little clearer. I hope there are more people who support this idea!
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It seems that a lot of users are misunderstanding the methodology used for announcing waypoints. For the new planner platform currently under development I have the following suggestions:
- Disable announcing the name by default (this is usually just an uninteresting address, hence the current number method)
- Announcing the name is irritating because that name changes every time you replace a waypoint, it changes back to an uninteresting address.
- Only announce the name (address) unless a checkmark is placed at "announce name"
- Users then should place the interesting info in the note, not in the name.
- Maybe the name field should be ignored in the announcements
should even be renamed to address and made unchangeable,who needs two fields for extra info anyway?
My own preferred planning method would then change to:
- Set announcements to ALL
- Enter the announcement in the notes field
- leave the "include name (or address)" field unchecked.
- An announcement is ONLY made if something is entered in the note field, or the address is spoken when the relevant checkmark is set.
This way only sensible info is announced, and no uninteresting addresses are being spoken. Users can still choose to have only VIA points or ALL waypoints announced.
@Con-Hennekens I like being able to change the name of the waypoint. That way i can easily tell what the waypoint is when looking at the list of waypoints. I would prefer that a waypoint name that has been manually entered not be changed it I move the waypoint. I don't have any issues with the current announcement methodology other than when waypoints "interfere" with each other causing missed announcements.
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It seems that a lot of users are misunderstanding the methodology used for announcing waypoints. For the new planner platform currently under development I have the following suggestions:
- Disable announcing the name by default (this is usually just an uninteresting address, hence the current number method)
- Announcing the name is irritating because that name changes every time you replace a waypoint, it changes back to an uninteresting address.
- Only announce the name (address) unless a checkmark is placed at "announce name"
- Users then should place the interesting info in the note, not in the name.
- Maybe the name field should be ignored in the announcements
should even be renamed to address and made unchangeable,who needs two fields for extra info anyway?
My own preferred planning method would then change to:
- Set announcements to ALL
- Enter the announcement in the notes field
- leave the "include name (or address)" field unchecked.
- An announcement is ONLY made if something is entered in the note field, or the address is spoken when the relevant checkmark is set.
This way only sensible info is announced, and no uninteresting addresses are being spoken. Users can still choose to have only VIA points or ALL waypoints announced.
wrote on 14 Sept 2024, 19:34 last edited by@Con-Hennekens, In my opinion, it is simple and straightforward to solve. Place all the text you want to be spoken in the notes field. Make sure you can check the box that you want to have that text spoken. If you do not check anything, it is just a standard note. Where you place this point in the route, it is spoken. If you want to report two kilometers before the gas station that there is a gas and coffee stop in two kilometers, then you place the message two kilometers before the gas station. You indicate the location of the gas station in your route in the usual way. This way, everyone is free to have something reported in distance or time and only an option needs to be created to have a text of your choice spoken. It does not matter whether you want to use a formation point or a via point for this. If there are people who still want to hear all the text or all the notes, you can give them a choice in Navigation settings/audio
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It seems that a lot of users are misunderstanding the methodology used for announcing waypoints. For the new planner platform currently under development I have the following suggestions:
- Disable announcing the name by default (this is usually just an uninteresting address, hence the current number method)
- Announcing the name is irritating because that name changes every time you replace a waypoint, it changes back to an uninteresting address.
- Only announce the name (address) unless a checkmark is placed at "announce name"
- Users then should place the interesting info in the note, not in the name.
- Maybe the name field should be ignored in the announcements
should even be renamed to address and made unchangeable,who needs two fields for extra info anyway?
My own preferred planning method would then change to:
- Set announcements to ALL
- Enter the announcement in the notes field
- leave the "include name (or address)" field unchecked.
- An announcement is ONLY made if something is entered in the note field, or the address is spoken when the relevant checkmark is set.
This way only sensible info is announced, and no uninteresting addresses are being spoken. Users can still choose to have only VIA points or ALL waypoints announced.
Just leave it as it is, only be able to lock the name if it is a via point, so that it is not changed when moving. If you put it down correctly right away, you don't have to move it anymore.
As @RetiredWingMan indicates, it is very useful to see in the list of waypoints what kind of point it is.
Garmin navigation systems also use this Tag: <name></name> to announce hard (via) points.
I would then choose to only announce the via points together with the note, because that is a requirement for a route that is in the RouteXpert library.
Why would you want to announce a formation point? -
Just leave it as it is, only be able to lock the name if it is a via point, so that it is not changed when moving. If you put it down correctly right away, you don't have to move it anymore.
As @RetiredWingMan indicates, it is very useful to see in the list of waypoints what kind of point it is.
Garmin navigation systems also use this Tag: <name></name> to announce hard (via) points.
I would then choose to only announce the via points together with the note, because that is a requirement for a route that is in the RouteXpert library.
Why would you want to announce a formation point?wrote on 15 Sept 2024, 08:41 last edited by Brian McG@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA
Why would you want to announce a formation point?I often add advice to myself in a shaping / formation point such as
"Caution tarmac ends road surface change to dirt"
This sort of thing can happen a lot riding in rural Spain & Portugal where new roads with excellent tarmac
just suddenly cease as the next part of the new roadhas not even been startedOther advice I often add will be distance to fuel stops.
Riding a sports bike with limited range & not an adventure tank that can go for months without visiting a station,
in the shaping / formation point I will advise myself when I pass a station how many miles it is to the next station
A quick check of my fuel gauge & I can calculate if I can reach or make the next station
So IMO there are lots of use cases for announcing shaping pointsPlease please don't make it so shaping / formation points are not announced
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undefined Brian McG referenced this topic on 15 Sept 2024, 09:21
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@Con-Hennekens I like being able to change the name of the waypoint. That way i can easily tell what the waypoint is when looking at the list of waypoints. I would prefer that a waypoint name that has been manually entered not be changed it I move the waypoint. I don't have any issues with the current announcement methodology other than when waypoints "interfere" with each other causing missed announcements.
wrote on 15 Sept 2024, 09:32 last edited by Inge Bakermans@RetiredWingMan Absolutely agree with you on this. I always change the name of a waypoint when it is something important to me. Would love to see it not change the name when moved.
Would appreciate it though if the note part could hold more characters than it does currently. And yes, notes should also be spoken.
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wrote on 15 Sept 2024, 09:53 last edited by
I would leave everything as it is and no longer use the two text fields to announce texts. There are certainly users who already use the two fields (without announcing texts).
My suggestion: introduce another field. If there is text here, it will be read out (with numbers!). If there is no text, nothing is read out. That's a simple rule... I think... -
It seems that a lot of users are misunderstanding the methodology used for announcing waypoints. For the new planner platform currently under development I have the following suggestions:
- Disable announcing the name by default (this is usually just an uninteresting address, hence the current number method)
- Announcing the name is irritating because that name changes every time you replace a waypoint, it changes back to an uninteresting address.
- Only announce the name (address) unless a checkmark is placed at "announce name"
- Users then should place the interesting info in the note, not in the name.
- Maybe the name field should be ignored in the announcements
should even be renamed to address and made unchangeable,who needs two fields for extra info anyway?
My own preferred planning method would then change to:
- Set announcements to ALL
- Enter the announcement in the notes field
- leave the "include name (or address)" field unchecked.
- An announcement is ONLY made if something is entered in the note field, or the address is spoken when the relevant checkmark is set.
This way only sensible info is announced, and no uninteresting addresses are being spoken. Users can still choose to have only VIA points or ALL waypoints announced.
wrote on 15 Sept 2024, 11:30 last edited byHi to all & apologies for this post length plus I think I may be the one causing the trouble & confusion over in the other thread Text to Speech function questions
@Con-Hennekens said in Text to Speech function questions:
I agree however that the current method takes some knowledge about it in advance.
I am glad we can agree that the current system is a little confusing without the extra special knowledge
This confusion or requirement to know the extra knowledge is why I believe the announcement function cannot stay the same,
it needs to be cleaned up so it is easier for all to understand@Con-Hennekens said in Text to Speech function questions:
I think your suggestion would make things even more complicated. I think there would be a more simple method possible.
but here we disagree, I think my suggestion is the simple method
It is a simple 4 stage progression switch
- Off - no announcements
- Notes- announce only the notes field
- Via - announce the Via hard points names + the notes field
- All - announce everything, it means All = all of the soft point names, all the Via hard point names & all the notes, no hidden numerical filters
So setting 1 "Off" is obviously for those who like silence & don't care for announcements
You can still add info in the Notes field & select "Off" but nothing would be announced,
information in the notes field would still show on the screen layout if you had "Upcoming Waypoint" selected as would the point name but you would hear nothingSetting 2 "Notes" means the user can selectively choose which points get a announced by simply adding text to the Notes field of that point
There is no need for check boxes to say announce this point, the simple addition of text to the Notes field acts like the check box
If you have nothing in the Notes field you hear nothing,
If you add a note you hear it but you would not hear the "unnecessary pointless" address information in the point name field
I think most users would choose this setting as it allows them to control when & what they want to hearSetting 3 "Via" is similar to the current setup, you would hear an announcement of the hard point names plus any additional note information
If you only want to hear the hard point names announced you don't add additional text in the notes field& setting 4 "All" is everything for those who like an overdose of information,
don't choose All if you don't want the to hear all the address name stored in the point name field
All means as above = everything, it is unfiltered you hear all the point names & all the notesIMO this is the simplest system & gives the user the most flexibility in MRA Navigation & is more compatible with other navigation systems
&
@Con-Hennekens said in Suggestion for announcements:.- Maybe the name field ...... made unchangeable
Please no no no, the point name field is the standard common field to show additional user editable information with other systems
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@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA
Why would you want to announce a formation point?I often add advice to myself in a shaping / formation point such as
"Caution tarmac ends road surface change to dirt"
This sort of thing can happen a lot riding in rural Spain & Portugal where new roads with excellent tarmac just suddenly cease as the next part of the new roadhas not even been startedOther advice I often add will be distance to fuel stops.
Riding a sports bike with limited range & not an adventure tank that can go for months without visiting a station,
in the shaping / formation point I will advise myself when I pass a station how many miles it is to the next station
A quick check of my fuel gauge & I can calculate if I can reach or make the next station
So IMO there are lots of use cases for announcing shaping pointsPlease please don't make it so shaping / formation points are not announced
For both things you mention, you can use a via point. I always make sure that there is a gas station in the route after x number of KM. So that I can fill up there, usually between 180 and 250 KM.
I also use a via point for unpaved roads, just as a warning.
And that can all be planned
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It seems that a lot of users are misunderstanding the methodology used for announcing waypoints. For the new planner platform currently under development I have the following suggestions:
- Disable announcing the name by default (this is usually just an uninteresting address, hence the current number method)
- Announcing the name is irritating because that name changes every time you replace a waypoint, it changes back to an uninteresting address.
- Only announce the name (address) unless a checkmark is placed at "announce name"
- Users then should place the interesting info in the note, not in the name.
- Maybe the name field should be ignored in the announcements
should even be renamed to address and made unchangeable,who needs two fields for extra info anyway?
My own preferred planning method would then change to:
- Set announcements to ALL
- Enter the announcement in the notes field
- leave the "include name (or address)" field unchecked.
- An announcement is ONLY made if something is entered in the note field, or the address is spoken when the relevant checkmark is set.
This way only sensible info is announced, and no uninteresting addresses are being spoken. Users can still choose to have only VIA points or ALL waypoints announced.
wrote on 15 Sept 2024, 13:51 last edited by@Con-Hennekens see wat you mean. I made a mestake. I wanted the note to be announced later not the waypoint. Now the note was readout way before I was @the place where I wanted it to be readout to me..
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Hi to all & apologies for this post length plus I think I may be the one causing the trouble & confusion over in the other thread Text to Speech function questions
@Con-Hennekens said in Text to Speech function questions:
I agree however that the current method takes some knowledge about it in advance.
I am glad we can agree that the current system is a little confusing without the extra special knowledge
This confusion or requirement to know the extra knowledge is why I believe the announcement function cannot stay the same,
it needs to be cleaned up so it is easier for all to understand@Con-Hennekens said in Text to Speech function questions:
I think your suggestion would make things even more complicated. I think there would be a more simple method possible.
but here we disagree, I think my suggestion is the simple method
It is a simple 4 stage progression switch
- Off - no announcements
- Notes- announce only the notes field
- Via - announce the Via hard points names + the notes field
- All - announce everything, it means All = all of the soft point names, all the Via hard point names & all the notes, no hidden numerical filters
So setting 1 "Off" is obviously for those who like silence & don't care for announcements
You can still add info in the Notes field & select "Off" but nothing would be announced,
information in the notes field would still show on the screen layout if you had "Upcoming Waypoint" selected as would the point name but you would hear nothingSetting 2 "Notes" means the user can selectively choose which points get a announced by simply adding text to the Notes field of that point
There is no need for check boxes to say announce this point, the simple addition of text to the Notes field acts like the check box
If you have nothing in the Notes field you hear nothing,
If you add a note you hear it but you would not hear the "unnecessary pointless" address information in the point name field
I think most users would choose this setting as it allows them to control when & what they want to hearSetting 3 "Via" is similar to the current setup, you would hear an announcement of the hard point names plus any additional note information
If you only want to hear the hard point names announced you don't add additional text in the notes field& setting 4 "All" is everything for those who like an overdose of information,
don't choose All if you don't want the to hear all the address name stored in the point name field
All means as above = everything, it is unfiltered you hear all the point names & all the notesIMO this is the simplest system & gives the user the most flexibility in MRA Navigation & is more compatible with other navigation systems
&
@Con-Hennekens said in Suggestion for announcements:.- Maybe the name field ...... made unchangeable
Please no no no, the point name field is the standard common field to show additional user editable information with other systems
I would go for this option: Via - announce the Via hard points names + the notes field
I can't make it any simpler
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@RetiredWingMan Absolutely agree with you on this. I always change the name of a waypoint when it is something important to me. Would love to see it not change the name when moved.
Would appreciate it though if the note part could hold more characters than it does currently. And yes, notes should also be spoken.
wrote on 15 Sept 2024, 14:21 last edited by@Inge-Bakermans said in Suggestion for announcements:
@RetiredWingMan Absolutely agree with you on this. I always change the name of a waypoint when it is something important to me. Would love to see it not change the name when moved.
Would appreciate it though if the note part could hold more characters than it does currently. And yes, notes should also be spoken.
I have also some concerns with the complexity of WP, with digit, no digit in the name for a SP.
But not to get a new name for a necessary move is so easy. When the WP is moved and you got the confirmation screen do not press „Accept“, press „Cancel“. The movement will be done and the name and Infos text is carried over unchanged.May it is in the „Handbook“. For me it was also an Info which I read here in the Forum.
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@Inge-Bakermans said in Suggestion for announcements:
@RetiredWingMan Absolutely agree with you on this. I always change the name of a waypoint when it is something important to me. Would love to see it not change the name when moved.
Would appreciate it though if the note part could hold more characters than it does currently. And yes, notes should also be spoken.
I have also some concerns with the complexity of WP, with digit, no digit in the name for a SP.
But not to get a new name for a necessary move is so easy. When the WP is moved and you got the confirmation screen do not press „Accept“, press „Cancel“. The movement will be done and the name and Infos text is carried over unchanged.May it is in the „Handbook“. For me it was also an Info which I read here in the Forum.
@Peter-Schiefer interesting. There must be an option to confirm wp moves because I don't get a confirmation message block.
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For both things you mention, you can use a via point. I always make sure that there is a gas station in the route after x number of KM. So that I can fill up there, usually between 180 and 250 KM.
I also use a via point for unpaved roads, just as a warning.
And that can all be planned
Alpha testerwrote on 16 Sept 2024, 05:50 last edited by Stefan Hummelink@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
I also use a via point for unpaved roads, just as a warning.
I would certainly not want to do this! In the unlucky situation where this 'announcement via point' must be autoskipped, it cannot and requires manual interaction. Having the ability to get the information from a shaping point is crucial to me. I want to use via only for explicit at via usage: that is, a place that MUST be visited.
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@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
I also use a via point for unpaved roads, just as a warning.
I would certainly not want to do this! In the unlucky situation where this 'announcement via point' must be autoskipped, it cannot and requires manual interaction. Having the ability to get the information from a shaping point is crucial to me. I want to use via only for explicit at via usage: that is, a place that MUST be visited.
wrote on 16 Sept 2024, 06:24 last edited by@Stefan-Hummelink said in Suggestion for announcements:
@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
I also use a via point for unpaved roads, just as a warning.
I would certainly not want to so this! In the unlucky situation where this 'announcement via point' must be autoskipped, it cannot and requires manual interaction. Having the ability to get the information from a shaping point is crucial to me. I want to use via only for explicit at via usage: that is, a place that MUST be visited.
As I mentioned now few times, the handling with shaping and Viapoints the differences in announcements by inputs with digits or no digits and distance is confusing. It is a cause of errors at the planning phase and need too much attention.
Actually the reliability is worth.My idea now is if a SP is used as important set a „blind“ VP short behind this SP so it will not skipped by calculation or a recalculation by new circumstances.
Garmin, i can only repeat is for me the master. Only VP (Wp with Alarm) are those with announcement,
And by the why, what you now called up is for me a point wher all the good things of MRA with taking information to WPs like text and pictures contains conflict in it self.
If SP with such Infos can be skipped automatically and I am on a new route not considered that a SP is or will be passed, this can not be a requirement. -
@Con-Hennekens I like being able to change the name of the waypoint. That way i can easily tell what the waypoint is when looking at the list of waypoints. I would prefer that a waypoint name that has been manually entered not be changed it I move the waypoint. I don't have any issues with the current announcement methodology other than when waypoints "interfere" with each other causing missed announcements.
@RetiredWingMan said in Suggestion for announcements:
I like being able to change the name of the waypoint. That way i can easily tell what the waypoint is when looking at the list of waypoints. I would prefer that a waypoint name that has been manually entered not be changed it I move the waypoint.
That is a great addition, thanks!
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Just leave it as it is, only be able to lock the name if it is a via point, so that it is not changed when moving. If you put it down correctly right away, you don't have to move it anymore.
As @RetiredWingMan indicates, it is very useful to see in the list of waypoints what kind of point it is.
Garmin navigation systems also use this Tag: <name></name> to announce hard (via) points.
I would then choose to only announce the via points together with the note, because that is a requirement for a route that is in the RouteXpert library.
Why would you want to announce a formation point?@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
Why would you want to announce a formation point?
Why would you want to limit announcements to VIA points? VIA points are solely intended to be mandatory, no other features should be hung up on being VIA points.
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Hi to all & apologies for this post length plus I think I may be the one causing the trouble & confusion over in the other thread Text to Speech function questions
@Con-Hennekens said in Text to Speech function questions:
I agree however that the current method takes some knowledge about it in advance.
I am glad we can agree that the current system is a little confusing without the extra special knowledge
This confusion or requirement to know the extra knowledge is why I believe the announcement function cannot stay the same,
it needs to be cleaned up so it is easier for all to understand@Con-Hennekens said in Text to Speech function questions:
I think your suggestion would make things even more complicated. I think there would be a more simple method possible.
but here we disagree, I think my suggestion is the simple method
It is a simple 4 stage progression switch
- Off - no announcements
- Notes- announce only the notes field
- Via - announce the Via hard points names + the notes field
- All - announce everything, it means All = all of the soft point names, all the Via hard point names & all the notes, no hidden numerical filters
So setting 1 "Off" is obviously for those who like silence & don't care for announcements
You can still add info in the Notes field & select "Off" but nothing would be announced,
information in the notes field would still show on the screen layout if you had "Upcoming Waypoint" selected as would the point name but you would hear nothingSetting 2 "Notes" means the user can selectively choose which points get a announced by simply adding text to the Notes field of that point
There is no need for check boxes to say announce this point, the simple addition of text to the Notes field acts like the check box
If you have nothing in the Notes field you hear nothing,
If you add a note you hear it but you would not hear the "unnecessary pointless" address information in the point name field
I think most users would choose this setting as it allows them to control when & what they want to hearSetting 3 "Via" is similar to the current setup, you would hear an announcement of the hard point names plus any additional note information
If you only want to hear the hard point names announced you don't add additional text in the notes field& setting 4 "All" is everything for those who like an overdose of information,
don't choose All if you don't want the to hear all the address name stored in the point name field
All means as above = everything, it is unfiltered you hear all the point names & all the notesIMO this is the simplest system & gives the user the most flexibility in MRA Navigation & is more compatible with other navigation systems
&
@Con-Hennekens said in Suggestion for announcements:.- Maybe the name field ...... made unchangeable
Please no no no, the point name field is the standard common field to show additional user editable information with other systems
@Brian-McG said in Suggestion for announcements:
@Con-Hennekens said in Suggestion for announcements:.
Maybe the name field ...... made unchangeablePlease no no no, the point name field is the standard common field to show additional user editable information with other systems
Point taken, I agree with this, and changed my OT accordingly.
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@Stefan-Hummelink said in Suggestion for announcements:
@Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA said in Suggestion for announcements:
I also use a via point for unpaved roads, just as a warning.
I would certainly not want to so this! In the unlucky situation where this 'announcement via point' must be autoskipped, it cannot and requires manual interaction. Having the ability to get the information from a shaping point is crucial to me. I want to use via only for explicit at via usage: that is, a place that MUST be visited.
As I mentioned now few times, the handling with shaping and Viapoints the differences in announcements by inputs with digits or no digits and distance is confusing. It is a cause of errors at the planning phase and need too much attention.
Actually the reliability is worth.My idea now is if a SP is used as important set a „blind“ VP short behind this SP so it will not skipped by calculation or a recalculation by new circumstances.
Garmin, i can only repeat is for me the master. Only VP (Wp with Alarm) are those with announcement,
And by the why, what you now called up is for me a point wher all the good things of MRA with taking information to WPs like text and pictures contains conflict in it self.
If SP with such Infos can be skipped automatically and I am on a new route not considered that a SP is or will be passed, this can not be a requirement.@Peter-Schiefer said in Suggestion for announcements:
My idea now is if a SP is used as important set a „blind“ VP short behind this SP so it will not skipped by calculation or a recalculation by new circumstances.
That is really unnecessary if no features are interfering with the sole purpose of a VIA point: make it mandatory...
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