Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested

[Tim Thompson]

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

@Tim-Thompson nope not in my car. The media in car shits down only when opening the door (exiting) when I turn of car the media still works (about 10 min)

So it boots up again only when leaving the car conpletely. At any other case even standing long time with car turned off (or start stop) media works

Did any of the examples that I stated not require you to get out of the car (IOWs open the door)? Clearly, I'm aware that you can shut off the engine in a car and the accessories will remain on for a limited time or until you open the door. Not something I would think would be particularly a factor on a bike (at least in my use cases).

When restarting car up it takes 10 seconds for media to start and 5 more for carplay (wireless carplay) if you use cable its even faster.

Great. I suspect most cars vary on reboot time etc. But they all do it. It is what it is. If you don't like how long this device takes is one thing. But the fact that it has to do it isn't really novel.

And you cannot compare car with bike, in car everything is at your hand, your hands are available, no gloves, even phone itself is available (i use quadlock holder) so transition is alwas smooth, temperature is always normal, and CP device is factory build and flawless. At least mine - VW group. And even if any problems again its managable in car.

Frankly I don't really notice much more burden imposed by the tech when starting out on a ride that isn't already inherent in the fact that I'm riding a motorcycle vs. driving a car. For example, I don't generally don a bunch of gear before driving a car. I do so when riding (helmet, gloves, glasses, ear plugs, etc.) regardless of what tech may be coming along for the ride.

I just had toyoda CHR in Spain as rent a car and it worked even better somehow media goes in CP in few seconds.

Bike is different world uncomparable and bike is not used for shops and similar

May I ask are you using CP today (car or anywhere)? It sounds like you ise primarly your phone. Am I wrong?

Every day... Every time I drive. I Use both - either AA or CP depending on which phone I want to use during the drive.

[Vlad Popovici 0]

If you really need a big screen for Android Auto you can do like I did:

• Galaxy Tab Active 3
• RAM mount specific for Galaxy Tab Active 3
• Headunit Reloaded app

Wireless Android Auto works like a charm and the best thing is the sound still comes from the phone, not from the tablet, so you don't need to switch pairings with your comm device. It has a companion app on the phone, so it doesn't use the BT to initiate connection. You can keep BT off for that matter.

Also Galaxy Tab Active 3 is water proof so you can ride with it without special cover that hinders touching it.

Other very nice features:

• can work with or without battery
• it has a big red button that is configurable to anything you like
• it has a sensitive touching mode, so you can touch it even with the thickest gloves
• you can put a sim card inside if you want to use it completely separate from your phone and you have a top notch tablet with you
• and the best feature, you can use MRA-app or Next RIGHT NOW without Android Auto (thou, if you use direct apps on it, you need to pair the BT with your comm device)

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Vlad-Popovici-0 sounds good! But actually as you said it can actually run everything directly.

[flamingm0e]

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

I also tested heavily garmin zumo xt. Nice device but management of device is very difficult, you need laptop with you….

You don't need a laptop to use a Zumo XT. I haven't connected my Zumo XT to my computer in months. It works 100% wirelessly.

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Matt-Flaming
How do you mange large routes - especially on trip. Well MRA route planner is answer but with garmin itself?

[Con Hennekens]

This is a vivid discussion . I am sorry but I didn't read it completely. TL;DR and too much of the same arguments. I do however have a few comments, maybe it gives some extra brain fuel.

I think it would indeed be very handy to have a battery in the device, exactly to overcome the reset/re-initialization each time after starting your bike. Also I like to set my route often before putting it on the bike. A small battery would suffice for that. I owned a Streetpilot many years ago and the biggest frustration was: no-battery...

In my opinion the comment about hot/cold battery problems is a non-issue. ALL Zumo and Rider users would have problems with their batteries if it was, but instead most units survive more than 10 years of use.

I am in favor of connecting accessoires directly to battery. You can prevent power-leakage with a simple switch. You can depend on CANBUS to switch accessories off, but is a proven fail-sensitive method. I had an USB charger keeping CANBUS open, dead battery in 3 days. Besides that, direct attached and manually switched I can use my USB charger to charge my COM set while drinking coffee

I like the idea of an dedicated Android navigation device. For me it doesn't really add anything if it does that through Android Auto, screencast or whatever. An autonomous device (like a phone without phone-functions) with an decent integrated powered mount like a Zumo would be perfect. Basically a Zumo running Android with the Google playstore is perfect.

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Con-Hennekens I agree with you. Well in fact if you took the best from each vendor you would certanly get a perfect device

[Dave J 0]

@Con-Hennekens Agree with you. I am running a refurbished Google Pixel 6 Pro with an SPC+ case and SPC+ powered vibration mount. Loving the set up having moved away from my Garmin Zumo XT. Using a refurbished phone as I am not bothered if the camera breaks - vibration issue - although the mount should help.
SPC+ anti Vibration Charge Mount
SPC+ Pixel 6 Pro Case

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Dave-J-0

I believe GPS manufacturers have realised that AA and CP are setting the future for mobile apps only. Car manufacturers stopped integrating dedicated navi, even bikes started with CP/AA (honda, bmw)

So I guess noone will invest in devices in future, all goes ‘mobile’

[Dave J 0]

@Jure-Sirena-0 I agree with you. I became frustrated with the Garmin as I was constrained with what I could do. My Android and iPhone devices give me so much more flex with what I can do and the apps available.

[Con Hennekens]

@Jure-Sirena-0, Yes, for integrated devices that is the way to goo. It keeps manufacturers the hassle of having to update their embedded stuff, and keeps users from being fed up with old and uncompliant stuff. It simply moves functionality to a device the user already has and regularly renews.

@Dave-J-0, my personal experience with rugged and/or waterproof cases is that the phone stops functioning due to overheating, with al that extra insulation A normal rugged phone does not need an extra case.

[flamingm0e]

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

How do you mange large routes - especially on trip. Well MRA route planner is answer but with garmin itself?

What do you mean?

Create the route. Open the route in Explore on your phone and it syncs automatically. Or open it with Drive and send it to the Zumo. I don't connect my Zumo to my computer at all unless I want to play around with Open Street Maps or themes.

In fact, my Zumo is locked on my bike nearly 100% of the time.

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Matt-Flaming I mainly ment about changes during drive etc if plans change.
I tried Garmin drive but app for iphone was a bit limited, maybe it was updated

But I guess I know what you mean - when you say 'create route' This means create it on myroute planner or base camp and then only use it, but you cannot manage it on the way - this is main pain.
when you try tomtom mydrive you know what I talk about, I want to go here, here, here, send to device....this is it, or open existing route, do what ever you want with it and send to device, all syncs in second

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Dave-J-0 This is exactly what I ment, I was very limited in what I wanted to do you needed basecamp for serious planning and route cmanagement, for that you need a laptop. TomTom mydrive on the other hand is marvelous. Few clicks for anything. Hoping for MRA N to be on this level

[Jure Sirena 0]

@Jure-Sirena-0

OK played with it a bit. Sorry gopro just can properly focus this screen

1. Pairing. Ok but first issue, I had to manualy confirm BT connection on phone - this happened to me also on bike at the test drive. Not at pairing but at one of the loads after bike was turned on

https://youtu.be/Dgj16AfACmE

2. Simulation of bike start, so it seems it needs cca 40 sec (!!) to be in app navigation menu. No issues on this attempt
   restart of device at 06:00, Tomtom navigation menu at 00:46

https://youtu.be/1_JGcezR6Z0

3. Second restart - next issue, CP closed just after being opened. Even phone had difficulty coming out of standby, after waking it up CP came back on its own (but still, this would mean waiting the device, solving the issue by taking gloves off, getting phone.....)

https://youtu.be/Axt_g1reELw

4. Another attampt no issues but needing close to 50 sec up to be ready
   https://youtu.be/Tev0c3VtKSk

5. One more attempt puting phone a bit further away, then starting route from carplay menu at the end switching from night to day mode (manually only)
   https://youtu.be/T_acT5ueYJw

Not only for restart issues, but device would be much more stable with battery, battery = UPS and electircal stability.
Regarding clock and time - it also does not have ROM its always reset, but then syncs with phone

And yes if you hate BMW, the device does not offer any other option for startup logo, not even in menu, probably cable-copy management....

[flamingm0e]

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

I tried Garmin drive but app for iphone was a bit limited, maybe it was updated

Garmin Drive is ONLY to connect your Zumo to the phone for network and notifications from apps. You can also search for POI/addresses and send directly to the Zumo. If using a route/trip in Zumo, it will ask if you want to add it to your current route, or create a new one.

Garmin Explore is installed ON the Zumo XT already, and once you have logged into Explore on your phone and connected it on the Zumo, everything can be done wirelessly using either app.

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

But I guess I know what you mean - when you say 'create route' This means create it on myroute planner or base camp and then only use it, but you cannot manage it on the way - this is main pain.

Sure you can manage it on the way, just fine. Use MyRouteApp. I have created routes while at lunch before and sent them to the Zumo.

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

when you try tomtom mydrive you know what I talk about

I've used TomTom MyDrive. MyRouteApp is better. The only difference is that you now have to "open" your route in Drive/Explore in order for it to transfer. Just ONE step more.

@Jure-Sirena-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

open existing route, do what ever you want with it and send to device, all syncs in second

Much like you can do with Drive and Explore. This isn't as difficult as you make it sound.

[Tim Thompson]

@Vlad-Popovici-0 said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

If you really need a big screen for Android Auto you can do like I did:

• Galaxy Tab Active 3
• RAM mount specific for Galaxy Tab Active 3
• Headunit Reloaded app

Wireless Android Auto works like a charm and the best thing is the sound still comes from the phone, not from the tablet, so you don't need to switch pairings with your comm device. It has a companion app on the phone, so it doesn't use the BT to initiate connection. You can keep BT off for that matter.

Also Galaxy Tab Active 3 is water proof so you can ride with it without special cover that hinders touching it.

Other very nice features:

• can work with or without battery
• it has a big red button that is configurable to anything you like
• it has a sensitive touching mode, so you can touch it even with the thickest gloves
• you can put a sim card inside if you want to use it completely separate from your phone and you have a top notch tablet with you
• and the best feature, you can use MRA-app or Next RIGHT NOW without Android Auto (thou, if you use direct apps on it, you need to pair the BT with your comm device)

Don't have any information on the Galaxy Tab Active 3. Quick search suggests it is pretty pricey.

One of the points of using these cheap AA/CP displays it so that expensive tech toys don't have to be abused in this type of application. Better to use a cheap unit that is built to take the punishment.

[Tim Thompson]

@Con-Hennekens said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

This is a vivid discussion . I am sorry but I didn't read it completely. TL;DR and too much of the same arguments. I do however have a few comments, maybe it gives some extra brain fuel.

I think it would indeed be very handy to have a battery in the device, exactly to overcome the reset/re-initialization each time after starting your bike. Also I like to set my route often before putting it on the bike. A small battery would suffice for that. I owned a Streetpilot many years ago and the biggest frustration was: no-battery...

As I mentioned... I think an internal battery is unnecessary. I doubt I would want to spring for any additional cost/complexity to have it.

In my opinion the comment about hot/cold battery problems is a non-issue. ALL Zumo and Rider users would have problems with their batteries if it was, but instead most units survive more than 10 years of use.

Comparing purpose built/designed motorcycle nav devices with general purpose smartphones is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. I don't think that there is any doubt that heat is an issue with smartphone batteries, particularly when the phone is used in less-than-ideal conditions (car dashes, direct sunlight, etc.) while running navigation apps. Also... winter riding and trying to power a smartphone in the cold is probably a non-starter. First, in my experience, when the phone is operated in the cold (think of a mounted phone exposed to cold wind) it's charging rate (greatly diminished) won't keep up with the power demand of running a navigation app. Second, charging cold lithium batteries is supposedly detrimental to the battery/not recommended.

Granted... these AA/CP devices would likely fall into the purpose-built category (like a Zumo). Still, I'd rather not have any battery issues/nonsense if I could get away with it. Apply the KISS principle when possible and keep it cheap.

I am in favor of connecting accessoires directly to battery. You can prevent power-leakage with a simple switch. You can depend on CANBUS to switch accessories off, but is a proven fail-sensitive method. I had an USB charger keeping CANBUS open, dead battery in 3 days. Besides that, direct attached and manually switched I can use my USB charger to charge my COM set while drinking coffee

HD provides (on my bike) both switched and fused direct battery power interfaces for accessories. I would simply use these (switched in this case).

I like the idea of an dedicated Android navigation device. For me it doesn't really add anything if it does that through Android Auto, screencast or whatever. An autonomous device (like a phone without phone-functions) with an decent integrated powered mount like a Zumo would be perfect. Basically a Zumo running Android with the Google playstore is perfect.

Indeed, this would probably be a good option. However, AFAIK, no such solution exists.

[Con Hennekens]

@Tim-Thompson said in Discussion: Carplay / Android Auto motorcycle device tested:

As I mentioned... I think an internal battery is unnecessary. I doubt I would want to spring for any additional cost/complexity to have it.

I don't consider a battery to be complex. It prevents a lot of unnecessary reboots, and makes it possible to use the device to preload your ride still behind your coffee without the need to take out your phone. I consider that basic functionality.

Comparing purpose built/designed motorcycle nav devices with general purpose smartphones is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

It's still just about a battery...

HD provides (on my bike) both switched and fused direct battery power interfaces for accessories.

That sound as direct as it gets

[Tim Thompson]

So I've done some initial testing with my unit (BINIZE variant).

Start up to CP with navigation app loaded (in this case Scenic)... 30 seconds every time. No failures, No issues. So far no need to repeat pairing. This thing has worked fine so far.

About having the navigation and route queued up and ready before stepping out to the bike. No problem, queue it up on the phone. Apply power to the unit and 30 seconds later you're ready to navigate. If starting the bike power cycles the unit, no big deal, the phone still has the nav app running. So, the unit will be up and ready to navigate in 30 seconds after engine start. Seems reasonable to me.