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Expert Review of route

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  • Greenhamundefined Greenham

    Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

    A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

    I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

    https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

    Adrian Avramundefined Offline
    Adrian Avramundefined Offline
    Adrian Avram
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    @Greenham Try and use other colors and icons for different activities. Use less via points and more droplets (shaping points).
    This is how I did one of the touring days for this summer in the Swiss Alps: https://www.myrouteapp.com/en/social/route/10178038?mode=share

    Best regards,
    Adrian

    Samsung S24 Ultra and iPhone 13 with Android Auto / CarPlay
    MyRoute-APP (Planner+Navigation, GOLD Lifetime)
    Honda NC750X (2021) with CHIGEE Aio-5 Play

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    • richtea999undefined Offline
      richtea999undefined Offline
      richtea999
      Valued contributor
      wrote on last edited by richtea999
      #4

      [not an expert, but like to give an opinion... 🤔 ]

      What happened to lunch?! 😋

      Points look nice and accurate, and not positioned too close to junctions, etc. Good work there.

      If you set a realistic start time like 9:00 that always helps gauge progress, and when you might want to stop for a rest/petrol, etc.

      If you're riding with others then check around point 40 for TomTom users - they may get sent a different way (west towards Afton and then north to McCormick Gap Overlook Calf Mountain Overlook - which could be a nicer alternative route, but I don't know the area).

      Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 10.41.55.png

      Greenhamundefined 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • richtea999undefined richtea999

        [not an expert, but like to give an opinion... 🤔 ]

        What happened to lunch?! 😋

        Points look nice and accurate, and not positioned too close to junctions, etc. Good work there.

        If you set a realistic start time like 9:00 that always helps gauge progress, and when you might want to stop for a rest/petrol, etc.

        If you're riding with others then check around point 40 for TomTom users - they may get sent a different way (west towards Afton and then north to McCormick Gap Overlook Calf Mountain Overlook - which could be a nicer alternative route, but I don't know the area).

        Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 10.41.55.png

        Greenhamundefined Offline
        Greenhamundefined Offline
        Greenham
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        @richtea999
        Thanks for looking at what I had.

        This is just day 1 of the trip. Day 2 I stay and do some sightseeing , and day 3 I haven't posted yet. I wanted to use the advice on this segment.

        I thought about the route you highlighted. But this goes through some of the hard hit areas from last years Hurricane. Thats why I avoided getting onto the BRP sooner.

        I'm traveling solo and basically any fuel stations after 100 miles is getting a visit

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        • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

          @Greenham

          Use maximum 28 via points in a route otherwise the XT will split the route

          Why all green points?

          Greenhamundefined Offline
          Greenhamundefined Offline
          Greenham
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

          This brings me back to the GARMIN ZUMO XT and how it reacts to these routes.

          When you import the route and then start the route it "calculates" the route based on its own Garmin algorithms.

          As I understand Via vs Shaping points. Garmin IGNORS Shaping points and ONLY cares about VIA points during its calculations when importing the route. That why so many VIA points.

          I'm trying to stay on a fairly specific set of roads. If I reduce VIA points won't/can't Garmin then pick the roads that will most quickly get me to the next VIA point.?

          Maybe I have it wrong

          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Greenhamundefined Greenham

            @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

            This brings me back to the GARMIN ZUMO XT and how it reacts to these routes.

            When you import the route and then start the route it "calculates" the route based on its own Garmin algorithms.

            As I understand Via vs Shaping points. Garmin IGNORS Shaping points and ONLY cares about VIA points during its calculations when importing the route. That why so many VIA points.

            I'm trying to stay on a fairly specific set of roads. If I reduce VIA points won't/can't Garmin then pick the roads that will most quickly get me to the next VIA point.?

            Maybe I have it wrong

            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
            RouteXpert
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            @Greenham

            Shaping points (soft points) can be skipped without the Garmin sending you back to a skipped shaping point.
            You must visit via points (hard points) or skip them manually.
            Only start a route if you:
            Have a connection with at least 3 satellites,
            Are on the route or are close to the route.
            Never start a route in the garage or at the kitchen table, because then the Zumo has to calculate to your starting point.
            Again, use a maximum of 28 via points and place them at critical points or where you want to stop. For the rest, just use shaping points. I myself use a maximum of 7 via points in my route and form the route with sufficient shaping points.

            Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
            Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

            Greenhamundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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            • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

              @Greenham

              Shaping points (soft points) can be skipped without the Garmin sending you back to a skipped shaping point.
              You must visit via points (hard points) or skip them manually.
              Only start a route if you:
              Have a connection with at least 3 satellites,
              Are on the route or are close to the route.
              Never start a route in the garage or at the kitchen table, because then the Zumo has to calculate to your starting point.
              Again, use a maximum of 28 via points and place them at critical points or where you want to stop. For the rest, just use shaping points. I myself use a maximum of 7 via points in my route and form the route with sufficient shaping points.

              Greenhamundefined Offline
              Greenhamundefined Offline
              Greenham
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

              Thank you,

              I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

              But

              QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

              Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Marinus van Deudekomundefined 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                Thank you,

                I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

                But

                QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

                Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                RouteXpert
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                @Greenham
                Yes

                Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                  @Hans-van-de-Ven-MR-MRA

                  Thank you,

                  I can reduce the hard points and use more soft points.

                  But

                  QUESTION .... Does the Zumo XT use the soft points when its calculating the route using the route I want to take.

                  Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                  Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                  Marinus van Deudekom
                  Valued contributor
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  @Greenham The XT has a nasty habbit of thinking it can make a better route then the one you planned. To force the XT to do what YOU want add extra shapingpoints. Use the compare function in the planning mode to see what TomTom and OSM do whit your route. It gives you a small inside of what might happen to your route if you didn't put in enough shapingpoints

                  Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                  Honda Silverwing GL 650
                  DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                  Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                  Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                  Greenhamundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Guztundefined Offline
                    Guztundefined Offline
                    Guzt
                    wrote on last edited by Guzt
                    #11
                    • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                    • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                    • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                    • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                    • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                    Nick Carthewundefined Marinus van Deudekomundefined Greenhamundefined 3 Replies Last reply
                    0
                    • Guztundefined Guzt
                      • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                      • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                      • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                      • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                      • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                      Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                      Nick Carthewundefined Offline
                      Nick Carthew
                      RouteXpert
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      @Guzt
                      Just for clarity, Via points are hand shaped not shaping points.

                      Always willing to help if I can.
                      Triumph Tiger 1200 XRT called Tina.
                      MRA Navigation Next and SilverFox B8J bar buttons.
                      Quadlock wireless mount for IPhone 11.
                      Cardo Scala Packtalk Bold.
                      TomTom Rider 500. (In the cupboard now)

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Guztundefined Guzt
                        • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                        • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                        • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                        • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                        • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                        Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                        Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                        Marinus van Deudekom
                        Valued contributor
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        @Guzt If you use recalculate on on the XT you're in for trouble. sooner or later the thing will for shure mess up your carefully planned route. The XT has a will of its own. So my advise is leave it of.
                        when using the 1.2 export using the Drive app. The route, witch must have some viapoints in it, will be shown on your XT. I alway project the track witch comes automaticly with the 1.2 export under the route so if you deviate dfrom the route you can still come back to the route using your eyes. If you have recalculate on, that would bee the chance for the XT to mess up your route and believe me it will for shure.
                        have fun

                        Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                        Honda Silverwing GL 650
                        DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                        Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                        Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                        Guztundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Guztundefined Guzt
                          • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                          • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                          • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                          • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                          • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.
                          Greenhamundefined Offline
                          Greenhamundefined Offline
                          Greenham
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                          • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                          • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                          • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                          • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                          • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                          #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                          #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                          I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                          I have compared the route with TT in the past

                          #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                          #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                          Guztundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                            @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                            • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                            • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                            • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                            • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                            • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                            #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                            #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                            I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                            I have compared the route with TT in the past

                            #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                            #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                            Guztundefined Offline
                            Guztundefined Offline
                            Guzt
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            @Greenham download this document from my google drive for full explanation
                            [link text]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zwt-5yrJSFWJCLw-997z3XFbFyAUY6en/view?usp=drive_link(link url)

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                            0
                            • Marinus van Deudekomundefined Marinus van Deudekom

                              @Guzt If you use recalculate on on the XT you're in for trouble. sooner or later the thing will for shure mess up your carefully planned route. The XT has a will of its own. So my advise is leave it of.
                              when using the 1.2 export using the Drive app. The route, witch must have some viapoints in it, will be shown on your XT. I alway project the track witch comes automaticly with the 1.2 export under the route so if you deviate dfrom the route you can still come back to the route using your eyes. If you have recalculate on, that would bee the chance for the XT to mess up your route and believe me it will for shure.
                              have fun

                              Guztundefined Offline
                              Guztundefined Offline
                              Guzt
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                              Greenhamundefined Marinus van Deudekomundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                Many have helped me understand the Garmin Zumo XT and GPX 1.1 vs 1.2 which has been very helpful.

                                A few helped me through a "seasonal closures" routing issue.

                                I have completed the Day 1 of what will be a 3 day trip in June. Would anyone be willing to review it and offer any suggestions? Good, Bad or indifferent?

                                https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/10473886

                                Greenhamundefined Offline
                                Greenhamundefined Offline
                                Greenham
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                @Greenham

                                This is great. I won't pretend to understand why you have to save as a track, then load it and compare with the Route, but I will do it.

                                In the Motorcycle profile it does allow me to route optimize. Or is it doing nothing.

                                I used Chat GPT to create an English version if you want it.

                                THANK YOU AGAIN

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                                0
                                • Guztundefined Guzt

                                  @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                                  Greenhamundefined Offline
                                  Greenhamundefined Offline
                                  Greenham
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  @Guzt

                                  You say in the doc when downloading to Garmin to do it in. 1.1 format

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                                  0
                                  • Greenhamundefined Greenham

                                    @Guzt said in Expert Review of route:

                                    • only use shaping points (hands) where relevant (fuel stop, coffee stop, lunch stop etc...) and use different colours accordingly.
                                    • once your route finished with the car activity profile using the HERE map set, optimise it by changing route calculation from fastest (standard) to shortest and adjust to original. Switch back to fastest and adjust again if necessary.
                                    • if wanted, now you may switch to the TT map set and do the same.
                                    • use the gpx 1.1 (route, track poi) for your XT.
                                    • you can leave the recalculation mode on your Garmin device to automatic without any problem.

                                    #1 Shaping vs Via points. Got that. Only use VIA points where you actually want to stop.

                                    #2 Heres where I get confused by your comment, I started with the motorcycle profile and the (Here) default. How do I optimize changing from fastest to shortest

                                    I don't understand the back and forth of fastest and shortest

                                    I have compared the route with TT in the past

                                    #3 I just learned from you guys recently to use GPX 1.1

                                    #4 I understand the Leave recalculation on the Zumo to automatic

                                    Guztundefined Offline
                                    Guztundefined Offline
                                    Guzt
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                    You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                    When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                    Greenhamundefined 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • Guztundefined Guzt

                                      @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                      You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                      When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                      Greenhamundefined Offline
                                      Greenhamundefined Offline
                                      Greenham
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      @Guzt

                                      Thank you again. I finally did it. I used your steps and saw 1 or 2 places that the track and the rote did not align. Fixed that, changed to shortest, no issues, exported to my Garmin in 1.1 Route.Track.POI

                                      I've learned a much from you. Thank you

                                      Mike

                                      Here is the English version of your instructions

                                      https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1khcVV8Wp56ploC0WzzSaf3bm-no57mve?usp=drive_link

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                                      • Guztundefined Guzt

                                        @Marinus-van-Deudekom Did I mentioned to use 1.2? Don't think so.

                                        Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                                        Marinus van Deudekomundefined Offline
                                        Marinus van Deudekom
                                        Valued contributor
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        @Guzt exactly that would be my advise
                                        I see that you still use Basecamp from way back when. Keep up with up progressive planning of MRA and make the world a bit more beautifull

                                        Honda Goldwing GL1500,
                                        Honda Silverwing GL 650
                                        DMD2 T865X 8 inch Android tablet using MRA next for navigation
                                        Garmin XT (almost in the cupboard)
                                        Samsung S20FE mounted on a Quadlock and using Android Auto in my car

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Guztundefined Guzt

                                          @Greenham In the toolkit under optimize you have the possibility to change the route calculation. That option is only available in the HERE map set when you make your route using the car/auto mobile profile.
                                          You can either add a copy of the route (hamburger menu - routes - add) or make the track underlying (which I prefer) visible as reference (I already have an uploaded track of the route as I make all my routes mostly in Basecamp).
                                          When one recalculates with shorter distance e.g. the route will differ from the original. By dragging the recalculated route to the track or reference route, you force the route to follow the original as intended. Hence the reason that one can leave auto-calculation to on on the gps when using gpx 1.1

                                          Greenhamundefined Offline
                                          Greenhamundefined Offline
                                          Greenham
                                          wrote on last edited by Greenham
                                          #22

                                          @Guzt

                                          1 last question.

                                          What do you do when the tracklog and the route don't line up, but you want to KEEP the route. I can't move the Tracklog to match.

                                          Will the Garmin follow my route or the tracklog?

                                          This is the issue with GPS's and Motorcycles. If you want to take a more scenic route will the GPS let you?

                                          Mike

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