My first track navigation (iOS)
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So, I just got back from my first little drive using the latest beta (just had some things to do in my home town, so I created a route that included the locations I needed to visit). I used track navigation for this drive.
It was mostly a success, so well done on that!
Experience:
At first I was a bit concerned, because the navigation said I would be arriving at my destination in less than 1 minute (or basically that I was already there), but then I realised that I had made the mistake of putting the start and end of my route basically in exactly the same spot. So while it make sense for the app to think I was already done, it didn't do anything anymore after that, i.e. it didn't start navigating when I started driving off anyway, nor did it give any indication that it was done navigating, it just sat there saying I would arrive in 1 minute.
Suggestion:
I'd suggest either to just keep navigating until the user ends the route manually, or to stop navigating entirely when the destination has been reached.
Experience:
So I drove to my first stop without navigation. I restarted the app (just to be sure, I don't think it was strictly necessary) and reopened the track. Very nice that it can just pick up anywhere on the track (without having to skip waypoints!). It's one of the main points that I dislike about navigation using a waypoint-based system, so it's great to see this already works well. Experience:
I then drove to my next stop without any problems. The stop was in a dead-end street, which to my surprise was announced as a waypoint (I did indeed put a waypoint at the end of the dead-end street). I deviated slightly from the track at this point, but the app just guided me back to the closest point on the track and kept going. Once again: great stuff. I'll have to test with a slightly larger detour, but this is quite promising and exactly how I think the app should behave. Experience:
On my way home, I encountered a strange issue: at an intersection the app tried to guide me into a direction that wasn't on my route, for some unknown reason. When I just continued on my intended way, the app "corrected" itself and resumed the intended route. I've checked the route and the track when I got home, and I could see no reason for it. When I reloaded the track in the app, the deviation wasn't visible. As I have no clue what caused this, I don't really have a suggestion on how this could be improved.So all in all a very promising first encounter with the beta.
Wishlist:
I have a couple of wishes for the app going forward:- the text-to-speech voice instructions sound pretty bad. I would recommend (at least on iOS) to use the Siri voices available on the phone, if possible. I've put several of the phrases used in the app through the built-in TTS of my phone (which uses Siri voices) and they sound so much better, especially the Dutch street names in an English voice.
- I found the final instruction to turn right or left, to be slightly late at some points (depending on speed). While doing 50km/h, the instruction to turn right into a street happened almost right at the corner. I'm not sure if the timing of this instruction is speed-dependend, if not, I'd suggest making it speed-dependend (i.e. at higher speeds, make the instruction happen a bit earlier).
- Allow routes to be navigated as tracks straight from the app. Right now, I have to export the route to GPX and then import as route track. This is fine for now, but obviously not ideal.
- When using routes in this way, still show the viapoints (and waypoints) on screen and as a major bonus, also announce them during navigation. This last point would really make the app a true improvement over what I currently use.
Looking forward to testing with CarPlay as well. I had the app running while CarPlay was also active (displaying a different app without a route present) and the instructions came through as expected.
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@Herko-ter-Horst Thanks so much!
These kind of tests are exactly what we hope people do together with the detailed feedback. Since 3.2.7 (and now 3.2.8) the track navigation is completely new, so getting user experience reports on this is crucial to us!Very happy to hear that the feature turned out as a success for your test!
- Track navigation basically works best when you start it while being on (or at least very near) the route. If you are far away, it tends to send you straight to the end and skips the original track information.
- Keep navigation active is a suggestion we already noted based on this post: https://forum.myrouteapp.com/topic/3117/don-t-stop-navigation-at-end-of-route
- The issue on your way home, I don't completely understand what happened. Screenshots / recordings are very useful to explain that but I completely get that this isn't possible 9/10 times. I barely record my tests and when an issue occurs and I try to reproduce it with a screen recording, the issue doesn't occur
Regarding the wishlist:
- Something we will tackle before the final release (including more configuration options / langauge / audio output device etc).
- We might do that as a route in fundamentally different from tracks (because of the waypoints) and waypoint based navigation has way more features. I would be very interested in the community opinion about this topic.
- Track navigation and waypoints cannot be combined in logic. We could display waypoints on the map when using track navigation for routes (see point above, if we allow this). But then clicking the waypoints etc won't trigger any skip logic etc. A lot of people will be confused when showing waypoints on the map but using track calculation. Yes, if you really know what you are doing (which is true for most Beta testers), there won't be an issue but the general public would be very confused if you would start track navigation but show the waypoints on the map. Especially because the routeplanner (website) is waypoint oriented too.
Note: The whole discussion about route / track navigation and the integration of waypoints can become very complex.
Very happy to hear the audio output worked well while connected to CarPlay with another app
We aim to release CarPlay Beta somewhere near the end of this month. -
@Herko-ter-Horst Mainly I am very pleased that the track navigation functioned as expected!
Once again, thanks so much for this elaborate test -
@Corjan-Meijerink said in My first track navigation (iOS):
- Track navigation and waypoints cannot be combined in logic. We could display waypoints on the map when using track navigation for routes (see point above, if we allow this). But then clicking the waypoints etc won't trigger any skip logic etc. A lot of people will be confused when showing waypoints on the map but using track calculation. Yes, if you really know what you are doing (which is true for most Beta testers), there won't be an issue but the general public would be very confused if you would start track navigation but show the waypoints on the map. Especially because the routeplanner (website) is waypoint oriented too.
I think it also depends on where you are coming from. For example, I'm fully used to navigation via tracks, with the main thing missing being visible/audible waypoints/viapoints for lunch stops and the like. So as an experienced track-based navigation user, I would not at all be confused if I couldn't skip a waypoint, because I've never had to skip a waypoint (as they've never been available to me during navigation). Having waypoints/viapoints visible, would be a great thing. Having them audible as well, would be even better. Being able to interact with them (to shown additional info, like the description and planned stop duration, or even being able to stop the current navigation and navigate to the point from my current location via the fastest route), would be awesome.
Note: The whole discussion about route / track navigation and the integration of waypoints can become very complex.
If confusion for the general public is an issue, just get rid of waypoint-based navigation
Or just make waypoint/viapoint visibility/audibility an option like it already is for audibility right now. It could even be turned off by default, I'll find it
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@Herko-ter-Horst Thanks for sharing! I do agree that it depends on where you are coming from. We must however take into account that the previous Navigation app was waypoint based (and did not even support tracks).
I am very eager to see more community responses here
We won’t ever drop the waypoint based navigation hahaha. That truly is the foundation
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I'm not sure how this feature is actually suppose to work... But initial thoughts... If I understand it correctly... It's a feature I would probably never use if the app doesn't navigate to the next waypoint, display ETA at the next waypoint, distance to the next waypoint, display the waypoint prominently on the map etc. etc.
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@Tim-Thompson What track-based navigation provides, is first of all the guarantee that the track is exactly the same as during planning, regardless of how many route points you put in it and regardless of settings on the navigation app/device. The only deviations that could still happen would be based on differences in the map used during planning vs. the one used during navigation. If you're using HERE in both instances (in the case of MRA) those differences should be minimal to non-existent.
The second benefit is that you'll never have to "skip a waypoint" and the navigation app/device doesn't keep trying to send you back to one you missed. And if you need to deviate from the track, it will try to bring you back to the track automatically.
These two points I consider essential for the type of driving I do, which is pretty much 100% scenic drives that have been carefully prepared, so the last thing I want is my navigation app/device trying to second-guess the intention of the creator and recalculate the route itself.
What's indeed missing is the other stuff that has to do with waypoints, like ETA, notification about them etc. Which is why that is on my wish list and I really hope some form of it can be implemented in MRA Next.
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I know what route track navigation is and used it for example last year with our camper to drive the Grand Tour of Switzerland. But how does it work in MRA Next? Do you first create a route using waypoints, then save it as a track after which you can navigate it or is there another way of doing it?
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@Arno-0 That would indeed be the way for now as our routeplanner is waypoint based. When using the route generator (scenic or roundtour) we save the output as route-track. This type supports track navigation by default.
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I would like to see this kind of behaviour in the app;
Show the track and the route with all its features such as the via points simultaneously on the screen but provide the navigation instructions for ONLY the track.
Additionally I would like to have the via points being announced or spoken whatever you wanna call it.
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By doing so, the benefits of both "systems" are utilized.One could even go as far and show the via point data just like the app does now, from the route calculation, even though the app uses the track calculation for the navigation itself. This would be very much ideal.
By doing so one still is provided with the useful ETA of via points, while driving the track/route as similar as possible to the planned route.
I see the above as a solution to the practical situations where fellow riders use a Garmin or Tom device that ride the track, while we MRA users still use the route. Even though by careful planning any differences can be mitigated, it cannot be prevented 100%. This is solved of we MRA riders adapt to the other devices, while still using all the nice features that MRA planner provides us.
Showing the route and track simultaneously imho solves everybodies downsides, while keeping the upsides for all.
Perhaps the above is quite intensive since I feel like it requires parallel processing of both "systems"... Well see what is possible and what @Corjan-Meijerink sees as the best compromise between both worlds.
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I know @Herko-ter-Horst has been a "track advocate" for a long time
and I am quite the opposite. I think @StefanHummelink has a good point, to get the best from both worlds.Probably showing the via points is enough, shaping points have less importance. Also it would be nice to be able to start a route-based (A2B route) to the first via point, the startpoint (or any other viapoint by choice) where from where automatically the track-based route is continued. That makes an excellent method of picking up the (track-based) route from any of the viapoints. Say e.g. when you want to pick up from lunch location.
If track based routing get's popular, a "convert route to track" option in the planner would be very handy to get rid of the "export and import as track" routine. Perhaps even a "Navigate as Track" and "Navigate as Route" would be valid. But where the point of "best of both worlds" is reached, that would perhaps be obsolete, even before developed
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Thanks for the vivid discussion here! Love reading the pro’s and con’s.
To only partly comment: a combination between (hybrid version) of track navigation and waypoint information / features is very difficult if not impossible at this point. Especially given the resources spent in all other crucial features / community suggestions
So for now: keep the conversation going and we’ll see where it all ends. I am happy to see people using track navigation and testing it properly.
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Referenced by
Corjan Meijerink
