Upgrading from Zumo XT to XT2

[John S Parry]

@Marinus-van-Deudekom said:

If you compare an Garmin XT 3 to my T865X tablet it will be quite obvious that mine is not alone better but its multifunctional

I'm here to learn. How is the T865X tablet "better"? A more detailed explanation would be appreciated.

[Don Stauffer]

@John-S-Parry Thanks John, I'll look more into the Explore and Garmin interface / interference at some point. I have spent some time with 3rd party GPX editors, and have in mind a stand-alone file of 'permanent' destinations that I could maintain and use off-line. Like many others, I started routing with Basecamp, but never found it intuitive or easy to use in any way, even after working through several tutorials.

We'll see what future versions of the Route App have for Favorite and POI support, that could replace the need for any independent Garmin or GPX archive.

I do appreciate your help and comments!

[Con Hennekens]

@John-S-Parry said:

At the physical device level. The Garmin doesn't overheat. It can tolerate Death Valley USA level heat and other abuses that a phone can't. Additionally, the Garmin screen is completely readable in glare, while the phone isn't.

This is largely depends on the choice of phone. Mine is military specced with a 3000 Nits brightness. More than enough to be used with a matte screenprotector to reduce glare.

And on the Android side, the rugged versions of phones I've researched don't provide the full functionality of regular phones for everyday use.

Motorola has a large lineup of these military specced high brightness phones. The Edge 60 Neo for example can be bought for around 225 euro, and is perfectly fit to be used as a daily phone. If you are a high-end phone user perhaps it is not your thing, but choosing a Zumo also means an extra device. I bought my motorola dedicated for navigation alongside my daily pixel.

But yes, a Zumo can be, under specific conditions, be preferable. It would be very bad if it could not... I did not mean to start a flame war, thanks for your motivation in favor of an XT3.

[Mzokk]

FWIW I have a Zumo XT but now use MRA for navigation. Part of the reason is that my honda Africa Twin adventure sports has a built in AA/CP screen (Made by Garmin!!) I can control the map and waypoint skipping etc from the bar buttons on the Honda. I've found the app to be reliable for me for over a year and 5 multi day trips. I still use the Zumo XT and have it mounted on the Honda as I still have a use for proximity alerted POI's and I use it as a backup with all of my planned routes on the Zumo and I also run the track of the route on the Zumo. I had a look at the XT2 when It came out and a couple of things Garmin did put me off it. Number one was that you can't bluetooth routes to other Garmin devices on the XT2 and I often lead groups and this facility was important. For the XT2 and I believe 3 you can only share directly with Zumo's that can run Tread?? John would probably be able to correct me on this. For me this is not so important now as I can connect older Zumo devices to my phone and transfer routes via a Garmin Lead. In your scenario since you already have an XT give the routing app a go for a while and if you don't get on with it its no loss. I too used Garmin devices for over 20 years and their hardware is good and reliable. Unlike others I have no issue using Basecamp and still use it for POI handling along with POI loader. I also still use it to combine daily track files for tours and have no issue creating routes on it. For me the USP of MRA is the ability to create routes quickly on the fly when I'm on tour and the ability to access them on any device anywhere. Garmin's software support and the routing algorithms they use for their devices after the 390/590 range no longer suit my needs. Its good that we are now spoilt for choice though.

[John S Parry]

@Con-Hennekens said:

But yes, a Zumo can be, under specific conditions, be preferable. It would be very bad if it could not... I did not mean to start a flame war, thanks for your motivation in favor of an XT3.

Con, no flame war. I don't have stock ownership in Garmin, and would stop using Garmin devices in a minute if I felt there is a superior (for me) alternative.

At a practical level, a military grade phone (as you pointed out) would meet durability standards. I'm not sure that I could personally live with that kind of a phone as a primary everyday device, given the added weight/bulk, and a less than highest end camera. At least that what I've read about this class of phones. And of course, it's not Apple.

HW aside, there are the many functional differences between a phone app (MRA or otherwise) and an XT3. I outlined many, and they're features I wouldn't want to live without leaving an XT3.

I respect your loyalty towards the MRA phone app. I have the same allegiance towards MRA Routeplanner. I do hope the MRA app continues to evolve and someday reach a level of stability I could live with.

[John S Parry]

@Mzokk said:

I had a look at the XT2 when It came out and a couple of things Garmin did put me off it. Number one was that you can't bluetooth routes to other Garmin devices on the XT2 and I often lead groups and this facility was important. For the XT2 and I believe 3 you can only share directly with Zumo's that can run Tread??

I understand your points regarding the XTs and the sharing of routes. It's definitely a weak point in Garmin world. I don't know what Tread can or can't do in this regard, because I don't have external storage (Explore DB) activated in the app. My "neutered" version of Tread provides me traffic alerts and control of music on my phone -- that's it. When I lead rides, I distribute GPX files the old-fashioned way, which as you know is cumbersome, and doesn't always work as planned.

@Mzokk said:

In your scenario since you already have an XT give the routing app a go for a while and if you don't get on with it its no loss.

Back in late 2024, I actually did make an honest attempt to learn and use the MRA Phone app. I think I did achieve some proficiency. I certainly liked the Sync function for seamlessly transferring routes through the MRA cloud from Routeplanner to the phone. But I ran into a few problems that frustrated me and tempered my enthusiasm. The primary issue was finding that off-line vs on-line doesn't necessary calculate the same. I posted a topic at the time, outlining in detail how the two versions differed and contrasted with the XT calculation. Corjan responded (I'm paraphrasing) with "What do you want me to do about it"? I was a bit shocked to get a response like that. But his message was that it's a HERE issue and his hands were tied. It's the same response we get to many of the outstanding problems today. It simply not acceptable to me that I couldn't trust consistency of route calculation at all layers of MRA.

Regardless, with my overall testing, it always went back to my XT having navigation functionality that didn't (and currently doesn't) exist in the app. As I mentioned to Con, I hope the app does evolve to a point where I can re-consider it in the future.

[Con Hennekens]

@John-S-Parry said:

I respect your loyalty towards the MRA phone app.

I cannot deny that some fellows became friends (or I would not dare... ), but it is not about loyalty. At the time I was really struggling many years already with Mapsource as well as Basecamp, looking at the same videos trying to find out how it works again. It did never stick. When I learned about MRA planner I was still using a zumo (I went from Streetpilot 2610 to Zumo 660 and Zumo 390). The planner was a real nobrainer compared to the Garmin alternatives. Then MRA came With Navigation (which in our circle we call "Previous" by now ) I tried it for a few rides, and I never felt the need to pick up the Zumo again. So not just loyalty, but also the genuine belief that it works great as an ecosystem. And you are right to add "for me", because that's actually what it is. I am a tourer, I don't do off road, make most of my own routes. We just have different use cases or methods I think.

[Marinus van Deudekom]

@John-S-Parry said:

Regardless, with my overall testing, it always went back to my XT having navigation functionality that didn't (and currently doesn't) exist in the app. As I mentioned to Con, I hope the app does evolve to a point where I can re-consider it in the future.

You are comparing the app from 2 years ago to a brand new XT3. You leave out that the app has had a couple of major make overs since then.
What functionality do you find in that XT3 that you dont find in MRA Next anno 2026.
That would be a fair Comparison

[John S Parry]

@Marinus-van-Deudekom said:

You are comparing the app from 2 years ago to a brand new XT3. You leave out that the app has had a couple of major make overs since then.
What functionality do you find in that XT3 that you dont find in MRA Next anno 2026.
That would be a fair Comparison

You never did answer my question asking if you have extensive (or any) XT experience. If you don't, much of what I describe isn't going to make much sense or have the impact that it should. Regardless, I outlined some of the major differences in post#3. if you dispute any of those or want clarification, I'm happy to have a discussion.

[Marinus van Deudekom]

@John-S-Parry Yes I did use an XT device for a couple of years and the main reason for me to switch to the T865X was the multiple attempts of that XT to mess up my ride. This is due to way Garmin devices handle routes that are not made with Garmin. I've written a couple of post back then discribing how Garmin is discriminating route not made with Garmin devices and ofr software. Branche protection you could say.
The screen of that XT and the visibility made decide to search for a rugged tablet wit h at least the 1000 nits like the XT has. I also wanted such a device to handle MRA routes like they were intended. Thus quiting the Garmin algorithme.
The few advantages you mentioned in post #3 to me are more user prefered gadgets. I tend to plan my trips carefully and thus there is no need to ad different peaces of other routes along the way.
In the end I've found the T865X more capable to fill my needs. MRA runs perfect on it with all it's features and om top of that a 1300 + nits screens witch is even better than the XT's screen.
I hope this answers your questions.

[John S Parry]

@Marinus-van-Deudekom said:

Yes I did use an XT device for a couple of years and the main reason for me to switch to the T865X was the multiple attempts of that XT to mess up my ride. This is due to way Garmin devices handle routes that are not made with Garmin. I've written a couple of post back then discribing how Garmin is discriminating route not made with Garmin devices and ofr software. Branche protection you could say.

I don't know what to say about this. I've spent the last few years using MRA Routeplanner to create routes for the XT, and now the XT3. I've used both the HERE and OSM base maps for creating GPX files imported into the Garmin. I sometimes even use inRoute (Apple Maps) to create GPX files for XT import. We're talking literally hundreds of routes. That seems like a lot, but I lead rides that span weeks and sometimes crisscross the USA. Being retired and having time is great. I've NEVER encountered what you described. There isn't a Garmin conspiracy to tank routes not developed with Basecamp. You seem experienced, and I mean no disrespect, but there is something on the user side here. Besides my own experience, I ride with many who develop routes in Kurviger, Scenic and Calimoto for import into the XT, our most used group device. Again, I'd know if Garmin was playing games. I wouldn't be able to avoid it. They're not.

@Marinus-van-Deudekom said:

The few advantages you mentioned in post #3 to me are more user prefered gadgets. I tend to plan my trips carefully and thus there is no need to ad different peaces of other routes along the way.

I plan carefully too. And I'm a firm believer in following a route as planned. But none of us are so perfect that we know exactly where we're going to be at all times during the day, and with crystal ball vision for planning accordingly. Sometimes you have to make a diversion for reasons unanticipated, especially when riding with a group. That's the nature of life. And the "Look Ahead" feature in the XT/XT2/XT3 handles it eloquently. You not only locate where you need to go (sometimes well off the main route), but you can automatically add this diversion as a via point to your route. Maybe it's a USA thing where we have vast open spaces, but it can be a life saver under certain circumstances.

We can go on. I can expand on the other items I mentioned, but it's not necessary at this point. The message is that the XT series is incredibly competent if you understand it and know how to manipulate its advanced functions. It's not perfect, and of course there are things I'd like changed. But its core navigation functionality is solid. I wouldn't use it otherwise.

[Mzokk]

@Marinus-van-Deudekom I'd have to say I use Basecamp routes and MRA routes interchangeably on the XT my other Zumo's without issue and have transferred many Basecamp routes to MRA without issue and used them via the navigation app. The only point of note is that MRA prepared routes transferred to Garmin devices do not transfer Via points to Zumo favourites as they are imbedded in the routes rather than separate entities as they are in Basecamp prepared GPX files.

[Marinus van Deudekom]

@John-S-Parry let's agree to disagree. Have fun riding

[Guzzist]

@Don-Stauffer / @john-s-parry ...at the point to share routes (p.e. as group leader) with other participants - there is one point more, I see an advantage for MyRouteApp: it's not needed any longer to share gpx files cumbersome wireless, or by cable or mail, or...

Simply use an Event in MRA Routeplanner and share your route with participants. If they use MyRoute Navigation Next too - the route(s) will be synched immediately wireless. With no hassle, any of the participants Navi calculates a different route layout!

And because I said: at the moment, where MyRouteApp isn't good enough for offroad riding - and therefore I use DMD Hard- and Software parallel. The DMD2 app can do the same: share the route with other participants, simply by synchronise. This group ride function can additionally share the position of each rider on the map of each! Incl. SOS button to send "help please" to the other participants. That are incredible higher levels in navigation; it's more than pure navigation.

Compared with GARMIN, it looks like GARMIN simply failed to recognise the signs of the modern times and is effectively selling outdated solutions. And more, almost every new device came with a new subsystem for loading GPX files onto the sat-nav or managing routes. That’s not just a nuisance – it’s infuriating!

I’ve been riding motorbikes and driving cars for 50 years – new ones from time to time. And every time, I’ve had to learn a new system. But as the saying goes: ‘Learning – or riding a motorbike – keeps you young’!