CarPlay and Android Auto device

[Jörgen]

Thanks.
What a work spirit, working on Sunday.

[Corjan Meijerink]

@Jörgen Drinking coffee and updating the forum Nice and calm Sunday!

[Tim Thompson]

So I've been digging into these things a little more...

Noted on the Maxca site that the OS is Linux. Also, found out that they support both wired and wireless Android Auto and CarPlay.

Searching around, I've found reports of roughly 10%/hour (some more, some less) phone battery drain using wireless Android Auto. I might find that unacceptable. They say on a charger, the phone will run hot while running wireless AA.

The wired option may be important. I did a quick test running Android Auto with no power (using my Chargie to facilitate this test). It consumed about 1% in roughly 1/2 hour. If this is indeed representative, then 2 to 3 percent battery usage in an hour wouldn't be bad. I might do some longer runs to confirm this.

So... You'd have to wire the provided power supply harness into the bike's accessory power (might also be able to use the bike's USB port). Then you'd need to run a USB cable to where the phone is. Hmmm... What would make for a good setup here? Perhaps I could mount a windshield bag on my Heritage and toss the phone in it. The USB cable run from the windshield bag to a device like this might not be too bad. A little kludgy, but perhaps acceptable.

One potential important use case... Cold weather riding. They say not to charge your phone when it's cold, which is generally not a problem. In times past, I haven't used my phone on the bike during the winter. However, I've done a couple of rides beta testing MRA this year. I've noted that charging performance appears to be poor when it gets cold enough. So, one of these things might be useful here.

Hot weather riding might also see a benefit for obvious reasons.

[Corjan Meijerink]

@Tim-Thompson I rode in the freezing cold this year - battery charging was terrible. On the quadlock wireless charger, my iPhone was dead within approx 20 minutes.

As soon as it was inside again and I connected a normal charger it indicated a level of around 70% - leading to the simple conclusion that the phone cannot handle such temps and the battery indication goes bananas leading to a shutdown

Riding in hot / cold weather with a phone on your handlebar can be very challenging regardless of the apps you use. To benchmark MRA, we always test in cars as the weather (especially current season) impacts tests too much.

[Tim Thompson]

Did a 1 hour test run with my Pixel 5a. It was connected to Android Auto via USB cable, but with no power (battery only). Waze was used for navigation. Car temperature was 70 degrees F. Battery dropped from 76% to 69% - 7%/hour.

Not great in my opinion. Could imagine worse results in extreme temperatures. Road trips with long days might put a significant hit on the phone's battery. Not sure I'd want to do this too often (wear and tear on battery).

I'd be curious to see what wireless Android Auto would do to the phone while plugged in. Probably have the phone setup not to quick charge for this experiment (~1.5 to 2 amps max). Would the phone get hot?

Of course, similar experiment with an iPhone, CarPlay and MRA/Scenic would be interesting. How would the iPhone fair here? Heat?

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@Jörgen
Hi @Jörgen i ordered one too

[Tim Thompson]

Pondering...

I probably wouldn't want to typically run wireless Android Auto or CarPlay on a phone without power, assuming a battery discharge rate of ~ 10%/hour. This is particularly so traveling all day.

So, what about with the phone powered? Suppose that battery heat generated while running wireless AA or CP isn't much more than is currently experienced with wired AA/CP in the car (which isn't much). Currently my setup in the car (or the bike) doesn't do any kind of fast charging. Charging current is currently limited to ~1.5 amps. If demand/heat isn't much of a factor in this scenario, then it might be feasible.

I guess the question is, what am I gaining with such a device? I don't listen to music or take phone calls while riding. I currently just use my phone for navigation.

I suppose that heat and direct sun exposure could be minimized if the phone was tucked away. You wouldn't be using the phone's screen. I have to wonder if the battery temperature experienced would be significantly different (direct use of the phone vs. driving wireless AA/CP). My phone gets plenty of wind when riding/navigating. But I have to admit, I'm not sure how hot it is running. I can't recall it ever being warm to the touch. However, my memory may not be worth much in this case.

In the cold, I suppose I would need to use my phone without charging/being plugged in. In this case, it might prevent a significant hit on the battery if it was just driving wireless AA/CP etc. Otherwise just using the phone directly for navigation might put a whammy on the battery pretty quickly. However, how much do I really ever need navigation during cold weather riding? Not often. I generally ride fairly local during the winter months. But it would be nice to have it if needed.

So I guess the benefits would be...

1. Minimizing phone's exposure to heat and the elements during the summer. Maybe a reduction in battery temps experienced.
2. Getting more time/range during cold weather riding with phone unpowered.

I can sort of see some value... Maybe.

Did I miss something?

[Con Hennekens]

@Tim-Thompson, I think these devices are really nice, if they work well. I use a dedicated rugged phone (CAT S52) as a navigation device. If I could do that as easily with one of those headunits, and they work great, I don't see why I would not use one of those. Having already fixed a mount and charger, I don't see a benefit in changing to one of those, but when my CAT needs replacement, I might try one. So keep us posted

[Dave J 0]

@Jörgen I would be really interested to know how you get on with the device.

[Jörgen]

@Dave-J-0 as soon as MRA Next is CarPlay ready, I will contact Elebest again.

[Jure Sirena 0]

I am using iphone 13 and Carplay all the time in my car with Quadlock wireless charger. Absolutely no drain or high temperature (car's original Carplay connected wirelessly with iphone, no cables)

I am using also quadlock wireless charger on motorcycle (same charger behind quadlock wireless head) and never had issues with heat/battery except now in Tunisia for which I reported very high battery drain despite charging in paralel only when using MRA navigation (before the last update)

I use TomtomGO on iphone with carplay support and also tomtom rider 550 on bike

The Carplay will never drain your battery (it is just transfer of image and small data) The app on phone itself shall be the focus of battery consumption, because there it uses gps, bigger data, maps etc

But biggest advantage on this topic is when you use Carplay (or AA) is that phone screen can be locked! This helps phone battery by long way.
It also means that app itself is not accessable, usage of CP/AA intention is for guidance only with very limited functionality, not like on phone where you can 'touch and manage' all.

[Jörgen]

Hi, a short update.
Today I received a Elebest C650 for testing, thanks to Daniel from Elebest.
I did a short test, based on the information from another thread, that these kinds of devices don't have a battery, and do make problems with reconnection.
I concentrate on the reconnect time after power loss.
First, the pairing with the iPhone worked without any issues.
The device will boot and reboot after power loss in about 21sec. in standard mode. In CarPlay it takes 33sec.
So if the devices is connected to your bike, and you start your bike, there will be normally a short power loss, but it takes only 33sec to get the CarPlay App running again. I tested it with TomTom Go App in the car during a short trip and navigation is working fine.
I have not yet tested more, e.g. with Bluetooth headset etc.
Furthermore, I am locking forward to get MRA Next working with Carplay:
I believe there is something coming really great for motorcyclist.
To be continue...

[Jörgen]

@Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master

Which model Hans?

[RetiredWingMan]

I personally don't understand why you would want a Carplay / Android auto device on a bike. The GPS is distracting enough. The phone still needs to run MRA Next. Currently the power draw is excessive meaning it has to be plugged in all the time which causes excess heat. The phone would need to be somewhere allowing it to be cooled. Personally I just use an older phone with no cell service ... just GPS and WiFi. I download routes via Wifi as required and with downloaded maps basically run off line. I'm considering getting a slightly more recent phone that is at least water resistant if not water proof. Older phones can be purchased quite cheaply. My Cardo headset connects to both my GPS phone as well as my primary phone.

[Tim Thompson]

This post is deleted!

[Tim Thompson]

@Doug-Robinson said in CarPlay and Android Auto device:

I personally don't understand why you would want a Carplay / Android auto device on a bike. The GPS is distracting enough. The phone still needs to run MRA Next. Currently the power draw is excessive meaning it has to be plugged in all the time which causes excess heat. The phone would need to be somewhere allowing it to be cooled. Personally I just use an older phone with no cell service ... just GPS and WiFi. I download routes via Wifi as required and with downloaded maps basically run off line. I'm considering getting a slightly more recent phone that is at least water resistant if not water proof. Older phones can be purchased quite cheaply. My Cardo headset connects to both my GPS phone as well as my primary phone.

I've asked that question as well. I can see both sides of the argument.

I suppose one could use an old phone. But you are stuck I suppose with an old/no longer supported operating system. Eventually, have to wonder about future compatibility issues. Then of course the old phone - just as a new phone - is likely going to suffer battery/heat issues in the summer. In the winter, the phone's charging system likely won't keep up with the power demand and will have cold temp charging issues (damage).

If... Let me say that again... If... the wireless CP/AA power demand on the phone is similar to what's experienced running wired CP/AA in a car, then it might be something to take note of. Plug the phone in, toss it into the windshield bag and off you go. Phone is protected, out of the elements, and power demand (and generated heat) is as minimal as experienced running CP/AA in a car.

Plus... CP/AA provide a nice interface to use on a bike. Big buttons that make wearing gloves less of an issue. I know Scenic works very well on CP. I suspect MRA will also (and AA too). This pretty much gives bikes without HD's Boom Box (or pick your brand/poison) the possibility to have the same experience.

Plus... These devices are cheap (~ $125.00). They are supposedly IPX7 rated. I've not seen any environmental testing standards claimed. But assuming they do in fact hold up over time. Meh... Why not let a device like this take the beating?

I don't listen to music or talk on phones while riding. So, any advantage CP/AA would bring to the table in this arena would be lost on me.

I'm also intrigued with the Beeline Moto... Have to wonder... at the end of the day which will win out. An AA/CP front end or a super simple, diminutive device like the Beeline? Testing/time will tell.

[Hans van de Ven MR.MRA]

@Jörgen

Elebest Motorrad Wireless CarPlay Navigator - 7-Zoll-Display - Apple CarPlay & Android Navigation

Received it yesterday

[Tim Thompson]

Well... Got a delivery notice that my unit has arrived. I got the BINIZE (Does the brand name even matter? It's the same unit sold under multiple brand names.) 5" unit.

I'll be attempting to do a less permanent install on the Heritage so that I can give it a whirl. I'll be testing the Beeline at the same time. It should be interesting.

One of the first curiosities to satisfy will be to determine what kind of hit that wireless AA/CP puts on my unpowered phone. We'll see.

As an aside... Did a test run with the Beeline and phone unpowered. It drained the phone battery 3% in 45 minutes. Maybe extrapolate 4% to 5% per hour. Not too shabby. One's mileage may vary - depending on the phone's battery capacity, battery health, etc. More testing to do.

[Tim Thompson]

Ok... Got to play with the toy today. Set it up in the car.

Quick summary - Overall it worked well. So far, nothing to complain about.

I did the testing today using an iPhone 12. Phone was unpowered for all testing. Navigation app used in CP - Scenic. Power drain on the phone was 9% in an hour. About what I expected. The phone never warmed up - remained cool the entire time. Overall I would say this is satisfactory. However, I would provide power to the phone on long days or when traveling.

I also tested my Beeline at the same time. It was driven by my unpowered Pixel 5a. Phone battery drain was 4% in an hour. I was pretty pleased with that. I've got an app on this phone that monitors battery temps. Temp was 76 degree after 1 hour. So very little phone battery stress. I would be more free/inclined to ride without powering the phone with the Beeline. However, I'd probably still power the phone on really long days.

One thing mentioned in another thread is the fact that these CP/AA devices don't have an internal battery. Some don't like the notion that the unit restarts/power cycles when you start the engine. Personally I don't see a battery as necessary. The navigation app and route can be queued up on the phone before stepping to the bike. Once this CP/AA device boots up and loads CP/nav app (30 seconds), you're off to the races. Ready to navigate.

I've had no pairing issues. No need to repeat the pair process. Each time I've powered on the device it has automatically connected to my phone and started CP/nav app with no issues.

As to the Beeline... I'm actually kind of torn between the CP/AA device and the Beeline. Both work well and have their advantages and disadvantage. So far, I would say the Beeline is a viable navigation device. It will be the sole navigation device used on my Nightster. The Heritage - IDK. I did have one instance today where uncertainty may have led me to not take a correct turn. However, the Beeline rerouted no problem and I was back on track in no time. Eventually, even if something like this occurs, the thing won't leave you lost.

[Jure Sirena 0]

Myself as I mentioned I lost patience on bike because of this….

I tried again today on 400km trip (on bike again). Just cant accept it without battery. Sorry the restart is so anoying. Again my personal oppinion - and I spent 30-40.000km per year on bike

I am interested to see you try on bike

No issue when I tested in car, there is a different environment….no gear, hands available….