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Quality of navigation

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved [Beta] Problems, Bugs and other Issues
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  • Herko ter Horstundefined Herko ter Horst

    @Jure-Sirena-0 MRA Navigation (Next) uses HERE maps, not OSM, so what you're saying doesn't make sense.

    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
    Jure Sirena 0
    wrote on last edited by
    #12

    @Herko-ter-Horst Last picture in last post is Here maps:
    898km and 12h:35min
    tomtom is second picture
    915km and 10h:55min
    exactly same route, only changing maps in menu. On top of this MRA Next Beta application ALWAYS takes me off motorway through the back road - just like first picture with openstreetmaps does (app pic during navigation few pics higher), something is wrong....very wrong.

    Routing in MRA Next is same as in routeplanner with Openstreetmaps. While the most wrong thing is that it chooses it despite not being the fastest (when you decide not to take it, it recalculates and ETA drops signoificantly)

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    • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
      Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
      Jure Sirena 0
      wrote on last edited by
      #13

      I have tested this weekend 3 other routes inland point to point A-B, no intermideatte waypoints, all cca 100km, MRA Next app took me (wanted to) all the time through back roads, through cities....and yes route planer is set to fastest on no curvines (you can see the signs beside each waypoint)

      Same route with tomtom faultless and always cca 20-25min faster (including potential traffic slow downs, which are amazingly accurate in tomtom)

      app is PERFECT when you exactly precise the route with your many waypoints, while navigation itself at the moment is lacking quality. Guys will look into it.

      Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

        I have tested this weekend 3 other routes inland point to point A-B, no intermideatte waypoints, all cca 100km, MRA Next app took me (wanted to) all the time through back roads, through cities....and yes route planer is set to fastest on no curvines (you can see the signs beside each waypoint)

        Same route with tomtom faultless and always cca 20-25min faster (including potential traffic slow downs, which are amazingly accurate in tomtom)

        app is PERFECT when you exactly precise the route with your many waypoints, while navigation itself at the moment is lacking quality. Guys will look into it.

        Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
        Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
        Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
        Instructor RouteXperts administrator
        wrote on last edited by Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
        #14

        @Jure-Sirena-0
        Hello @Jure-Sirena-0

        I'm curious if you recreated the routes (with the 8 points and 898 KM) from scratch on every map?
        What options from the toolbox have you used in each map?

        I have made the following routes from scratch in every map.
        Only used 2 points and didn't use options from the toolbox.
        8271fc04-cb10-49e9-8fff-8b7bb522eea1-image.png

        OSM:
        0c151df5-36e1-4359-989f-1fa675cd635e-image.png

        TomTom:
        7d0a3416-9b82-4ece-8901-4b8dcb5402c5-image.png

        Here:
        2c0e1a59-40df-4363-b2ba-d86dd973c0f3-image.png

        Comparison of the 3 routes:
        OSM route opened, it has a black line.
        Here has the yellow line
        TomTom has the blue line
        Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
        7f5bf326-37c7-4f4e-8354-333c65e8a57c-image.png

        Tom route opened, it has a black line.
        OSM has the yellow line
        Here has the blue line
        Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
        f9d1dea9-53a4-425f-843f-b7943cbf69de-image.png

        Here route opened, it has a black line.
        OSM has the yellow line
        TomTom has the blue line
        Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
        207db029-d693-4bd5-980d-d32fb052ff0c-image.png

        Conclusion, so it depends on which map you make a route.
        To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.
        That the times and distances differ slightly per map can therefore be explained. Because each card has its own routing settings.

        Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
        Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

        Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

          @Jure-Sirena-0
          Hello @Jure-Sirena-0

          I'm curious if you recreated the routes (with the 8 points and 898 KM) from scratch on every map?
          What options from the toolbox have you used in each map?

          I have made the following routes from scratch in every map.
          Only used 2 points and didn't use options from the toolbox.
          8271fc04-cb10-49e9-8fff-8b7bb522eea1-image.png

          OSM:
          0c151df5-36e1-4359-989f-1fa675cd635e-image.png

          TomTom:
          7d0a3416-9b82-4ece-8901-4b8dcb5402c5-image.png

          Here:
          2c0e1a59-40df-4363-b2ba-d86dd973c0f3-image.png

          Comparison of the 3 routes:
          OSM route opened, it has a black line.
          Here has the yellow line
          TomTom has the blue line
          Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
          7f5bf326-37c7-4f4e-8354-333c65e8a57c-image.png

          Tom route opened, it has a black line.
          OSM has the yellow line
          Here has the blue line
          Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
          f9d1dea9-53a4-425f-843f-b7943cbf69de-image.png

          Here route opened, it has a black line.
          OSM has the yellow line
          TomTom has the blue line
          Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
          207db029-d693-4bd5-980d-d32fb052ff0c-image.png

          Conclusion, so it depends on which map you make a route.
          To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.
          That the times and distances differ slightly per map can therefore be explained. Because each card has its own routing settings.

          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
          Jure Sirena 0
          wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
          #15

          @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master its what I am saying all the time, I know app uses Here maps, but the problem is that its navigatiing with big big errors - not taking / using the highways, taking you backroads etc, despite having used no special toolbox. I have settings to fastest and 0 curvines.

          It happened again today - from A to B:
          Same exact point but MRA Next map wanted to go right through the city, while tomtom took the most sensable way straight to Ljubljana ringroad. This are my everyday routes and I know you need to be crazy not to take ring road (no tool roads by the way on it) so MRA takes the crazy option througj the city.
          In circles - it seems that MRA next ALWAYS takes the shortest option no matter what you choose.

          By taking shortest option you know what it happens. The app took me twice to strange roads and then I started to compare

          BTW: Look closely to your test routes, tomtom is 1h faster on more km (!!) because it AVOIDS cities like essen, HERE takes you throuh city
          This is my point, and if you will while driving choose to go where tomtom is navigationg you ETa in MRA will immediatelly drop by 10-20min! So I am absolutely 100% sure it is not navigating via FASTEST option1.jpg 2.jpg

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          • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
            Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
            Jure Sirena 0
            wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
            #16

            Todays case from route planner:

            Here maps - as per MRA Next:
            ee0e459c-68c0-46cc-bd42-f81bf0d95a60-image.png

            Tomtom (Tomtom mobile GO on phone choosed same option):
            c3837e61-bd19-4d6a-abae-e807d50b5dd2-image.png

            Secomd option is FAR FAR prefered, and FAR FAR fastest, its a ring road obviously.

            First option through the center of city, also dictated by MRA app, second via ring road dicated by Tomtom. I refused to go via MRA, and when I reached ring road MRA recalculated and went where I wanted to go, and its ETA dropped by 14 min!

            So my only point: MRA Next does not navigate via optimal route UNLESS you cleary set your waypoints where you want to go

            In my car I can use phone for MRA app and Carplay for Tom tom simultaniously, when taking print screen it takes screen of both simultaniously

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            • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
              Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
              Jure Sirena 0
              wrote on last edited by
              #17

              I can continue, I am planing big motorcycle trip in Tunisia in Feb 2023:

              Same route, despite the fact that I set many many waypoints on path where I want to go:

              649f43db-a2f7-4c2c-9c38-89be8b496562-image.png
              3c257aea-81d7-44fb-9e0c-887893b005e7-image.png
              Tomtom is 2 hours (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) faster despite more km

              I am a motorcycle guide who travels cca 30-40.000km per year and I have real faith in tomtom navigation. I realyl like the MRA app because of features, especially regarding waypoints and segments, but navigation is not serious ๐Ÿ˜ž

              To be clear - I am not blaming the app, but I do think reason is in map database, app is only using the info embeded in the maps (categorization of roads, positioning, etc etc) So I guess, having a serious navigation requires serious map database....

              Segments like this make a difference - green is HERE maps, imagin going through center of busy tunis cities....
              0389c8fc-0dc2-4626-95a7-666d7e904d22-image.png

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              • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                Jure Sirena 0
                wrote on last edited by
                #18

                When you say
                To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.

                Everything in practice shows this is not true, it seems MRA N always chooses shortest route

                Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                  When you say
                  To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.

                  Everything in practice shows this is not true, it seems MRA N always chooses shortest route

                  Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                  Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                  Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                  Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #19

                  @Jure-Sirena-0

                  @Jure-Sirena-0 Thanks for your input, MRA Navigation (Next) is still in the development phase, so things will definitely improve

                  Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                  Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                  Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

                    @Jure-Sirena-0

                    @Jure-Sirena-0 Thanks for your input, MRA Navigation (Next) is still in the development phase, so things will definitely improve

                    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                    Jure Sirena 0
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #20

                    @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master
                    Keep it up!

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                    0
                    • Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                      Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                      Corjan Meijerink
                      administrator
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #21

                      A quick follow up here: by default the toll road are disabled. This means that the app will not use them if an alternative is possible.

                      In a next update (not the upcoming) more routing preferences will be added ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

                      Tumbleweedundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • Corjan Meijerinkundefined Corjan Meijerink

                        A quick follow up here: by default the toll road are disabled. This means that the app will not use them if an alternative is possible.

                        In a next update (not the upcoming) more routing preferences will be added ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

                        Tumbleweedundefined Offline
                        Tumbleweedundefined Offline
                        Tumbleweed
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #22

                        @Corjan-Meijerink
                        When I use the app to make a route somewhere I want to go in Canada it uses Toll roads before non toll on the route it makes. I hate this, I should be able to pick no tolls, dirt roads, etc.

                        Corjan Meijerinkundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Tumbleweedundefined Tumbleweed

                          @Corjan-Meijerink
                          When I use the app to make a route somewhere I want to go in Canada it uses Toll roads before non toll on the route it makes. I hate this, I should be able to pick no tolls, dirt roads, etc.

                          Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                          Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                          Corjan Meijerink
                          administrator
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #23

                          @Tumbleweed Yes, I completely understand. Therefore we are implementing it in another iteration ๐Ÿ˜‰ No worries! It's still a Beta app and we need to prioritise what features we pick first.

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                          • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                            Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                            Jure Sirena 0
                            wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
                            #24

                            I prepared the routes for Tunisia, but I must say to my dissapointment I cannot use the app - and main reason is HERE maps.....from begining of this post I suspected the reason for bad navigation is in the HERE maps.

                            1.case (same route just changing maps)
                            When I create route, it takes me FAR FAR around between waypoint 10-11, because lots of MAIN roads are missing: HERE MAPS
                            faf1fde9-40d8-4433-b04f-ca919a51cf15-image.png

                            Tomtom maps (more then 3h less)
                            64d2c9f8-09c4-4dff-91c4-89208b380348-image.png

                            Openstreet maps
                            e022d76c-4ef1-49ce-9268-b2afc98f0c5e-image.png

                            Comparing route on both maps
                            e16c159c-9dff-4b94-bbe3-1a971e22b827-image.png

                            1. case
                              Here maps is green, you can also see that it wants to take me straight through Sahara desert sand to waypoint 15....skipping points 12,13,14??

                            3.case
                            Between point 8 and 9 takes road that is not driveable...etc

                            1. case
                              from point 3 it takes unexisting road again

                            Since the MRA usas the wors map option - HERE I cant use the app on my trip....
                            And I noticed lots of this map errors driving in central Europe.
                            Time to invest in maps guys....

                            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                              I prepared the routes for Tunisia, but I must say to my dissapointment I cannot use the app - and main reason is HERE maps.....from begining of this post I suspected the reason for bad navigation is in the HERE maps.

                              1.case (same route just changing maps)
                              When I create route, it takes me FAR FAR around between waypoint 10-11, because lots of MAIN roads are missing: HERE MAPS
                              faf1fde9-40d8-4433-b04f-ca919a51cf15-image.png

                              Tomtom maps (more then 3h less)
                              64d2c9f8-09c4-4dff-91c4-89208b380348-image.png

                              Openstreet maps
                              e022d76c-4ef1-49ce-9268-b2afc98f0c5e-image.png

                              Comparing route on both maps
                              e16c159c-9dff-4b94-bbe3-1a971e22b827-image.png

                              1. case
                                Here maps is green, you can also see that it wants to take me straight through Sahara desert sand to waypoint 15....skipping points 12,13,14??

                              3.case
                              Between point 8 and 9 takes road that is not driveable...etc

                              1. case
                                from point 3 it takes unexisting road again

                              Since the MRA usas the wors map option - HERE I cant use the app on my trip....
                              And I noticed lots of this map errors driving in central Europe.
                              Time to invest in maps guys....

                              Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                              Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                              Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                              Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                              wrote on last edited by Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                              #25

                              @Jure-Sirena-0

                              Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                              The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                              cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                              Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                              Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                              Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

                                @Jure-Sirena-0

                                Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                                The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                                cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                                Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                Jure Sirena 0
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #26

                                @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master said in Quality of navigation:

                                @Jure-Sirena-0

                                Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                                The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                                cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                                What is the point if the user has to make route and not the tool? Will I always need to g oto other tools to see roads and manually create points for every wrong paths in routes? Sorry it does not work like that especially on not known terriotries.
                                Thats my original point - qiality of navigation.

                                Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                  Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                  Jure Sirena 0
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #27

                                  Of course it was HERE and no tool kits activated

                                  2d8e48b2-dedb-4738-9542-71bce41f6367-image.png

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                                  • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                    Jure Sirena 0
                                    wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
                                    #28

                                    And the next stupid thing is - when I implement what you suggest time falls significantly. This way user is more smart then the tool. Tthe tool should do that!!

                                    It was 13h2m at original route
                                    edb8befb-a64d-44af-bd25-85c77ebc7b5a-image.png

                                    then time (and distance) drops for 30 min when i add points 11 and 17 to tell the tool that its giving me wrong direction....

                                    a5e5339e-585c-462f-a8e8-4853221a9245-image.png

                                    This should net be happening, I loose complete faith in navigation ๐Ÿ˜ž

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                                    • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                      Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                      Jure Sirena 0
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #29

                                      And even after doing that keeps insisting (HERE in green, TomTom or google in black) not to take main road that tomtom, google or even openstreet maps would

                                      0f895a0f-5e5a-445b-ba16-bf05a5e480b7-image.png

                                      So now I should again manualy put a point to black line tell the HERE maps they are wrong. And if I would do that time and distance would fell again.

                                      Maybe there is a hidden 'adrenalin' option in the tool ๐Ÿ™‚

                                      Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                                        And even after doing that keeps insisting (HERE in green, TomTom or google in black) not to take main road that tomtom, google or even openstreet maps would

                                        0f895a0f-5e5a-445b-ba16-bf05a5e480b7-image.png

                                        So now I should again manualy put a point to black line tell the HERE maps they are wrong. And if I would do that time and distance would fell again.

                                        Maybe there is a hidden 'adrenalin' option in the tool ๐Ÿ™‚

                                        Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                        Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                        Con Hennekens
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #30

                                        @Jure-Sirena-0, You must consider that different map-creators use different methods to qualify roads. The R114 is barely visible on the Here map. That could be an error on the map, or a deliberate advise to NOT take that road, that other map-creator oversee. Google Streetview is not available for that road, which could be a sign for it to be not much more than an unpaved road, I don't know. If I plot a route from Tatouine to Douz, it takes 4h27 over the R114 and only 4h16 taking the longer route (that differs not more than 10km). I think you have some misplaced waypoints in your route, that count for the increase in time and distance. You can search for even more different map manufacturers. That will all come up with different times and distances. That does not make one or more of them bad.

                                        d3acaa4a-e960-4971-9ae6-a742b6a1b860-image.png

                                        The essence of route-planning is to plan in the same map as your navigation device uses, to minimize differences (or use the track to navigate in third party device).

                                        I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                                        Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                                        Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

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                                        • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                                          @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master said in Quality of navigation:

                                          @Jure-Sirena-0

                                          Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                                          The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                                          cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                                          What is the point if the user has to make route and not the tool? Will I always need to g oto other tools to see roads and manually create points for every wrong paths in routes? Sorry it does not work like that especially on not known terriotries.
                                          Thats my original point - qiality of navigation.

                                          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                                          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                                          Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                                          Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #31

                                          @Jure-Sirena-0
                                          As @Con-Hennekens also points out each map has its own data set and capabilities. Sometimes you have to force the route to take a certain road that you want by means of an extra waypoint.
                                          Well, if that's too much work... Then you should indeed let your navigation system do the work. This works well for A to B routes, but if you want to drive a specific route, you will have to turn it off manually. That has nothing to do with the quality of the navigation

                                          Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                                          Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                                          Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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