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Quality of navigation

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved [Beta] Problems, Bugs and other Issues
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  • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

    @Jure-Sirena-0
    Hello @Jure-Sirena-0

    I'm curious if you recreated the routes (with the 8 points and 898 KM) from scratch on every map?
    What options from the toolbox have you used in each map?

    I have made the following routes from scratch in every map.
    Only used 2 points and didn't use options from the toolbox.
    8271fc04-cb10-49e9-8fff-8b7bb522eea1-image.png

    OSM:
    0c151df5-36e1-4359-989f-1fa675cd635e-image.png

    TomTom:
    7d0a3416-9b82-4ece-8901-4b8dcb5402c5-image.png

    Here:
    2c0e1a59-40df-4363-b2ba-d86dd973c0f3-image.png

    Comparison of the 3 routes:
    OSM route opened, it has a black line.
    Here has the yellow line
    TomTom has the blue line
    Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
    7f5bf326-37c7-4f4e-8354-333c65e8a57c-image.png

    Tom route opened, it has a black line.
    OSM has the yellow line
    Here has the blue line
    Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
    f9d1dea9-53a4-425f-843f-b7943cbf69de-image.png

    Here route opened, it has a black line.
    OSM has the yellow line
    TomTom has the blue line
    Now you see that all 3 routes are generated differently on some parts.
    207db029-d693-4bd5-980d-d32fb052ff0c-image.png

    Conclusion, so it depends on which map you make a route.
    To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.
    That the times and distances differ slightly per map can therefore be explained. Because each card has its own routing settings.

    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
    Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
    Jure Sirena 0
    wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
    #15

    @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master its what I am saying all the time, I know app uses Here maps, but the problem is that its navigatiing with big big errors - not taking / using the highways, taking you backroads etc, despite having used no special toolbox. I have settings to fastest and 0 curvines.

    It happened again today - from A to B:
    Same exact point but MRA Next map wanted to go right through the city, while tomtom took the most sensable way straight to Ljubljana ringroad. This are my everyday routes and I know you need to be crazy not to take ring road (no tool roads by the way on it) so MRA takes the crazy option througj the city.
    In circles - it seems that MRA next ALWAYS takes the shortest option no matter what you choose.

    By taking shortest option you know what it happens. The app took me twice to strange roads and then I started to compare

    BTW: Look closely to your test routes, tomtom is 1h faster on more km (!!) because it AVOIDS cities like essen, HERE takes you throuh city
    This is my point, and if you will while driving choose to go where tomtom is navigationg you ETa in MRA will immediatelly drop by 10-20min! So I am absolutely 100% sure it is not navigating via FASTEST option1.jpg 2.jpg

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    • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
      Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
      Jure Sirena 0
      wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
      #16

      Todays case from route planner:

      Here maps - as per MRA Next:
      ee0e459c-68c0-46cc-bd42-f81bf0d95a60-image.png

      Tomtom (Tomtom mobile GO on phone choosed same option):
      c3837e61-bd19-4d6a-abae-e807d50b5dd2-image.png

      Secomd option is FAR FAR prefered, and FAR FAR fastest, its a ring road obviously.

      First option through the center of city, also dictated by MRA app, second via ring road dicated by Tomtom. I refused to go via MRA, and when I reached ring road MRA recalculated and went where I wanted to go, and its ETA dropped by 14 min!

      So my only point: MRA Next does not navigate via optimal route UNLESS you cleary set your waypoints where you want to go

      In my car I can use phone for MRA app and Carplay for Tom tom simultaniously, when taking print screen it takes screen of both simultaniously

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      • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
        Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
        Jure Sirena 0
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        I can continue, I am planing big motorcycle trip in Tunisia in Feb 2023:

        Same route, despite the fact that I set many many waypoints on path where I want to go:

        649f43db-a2f7-4c2c-9c38-89be8b496562-image.png
        3c257aea-81d7-44fb-9e0c-887893b005e7-image.png
        Tomtom is 2 hours (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) faster despite more km

        I am a motorcycle guide who travels cca 30-40.000km per year and I have real faith in tomtom navigation. I realyl like the MRA app because of features, especially regarding waypoints and segments, but navigation is not serious ๐Ÿ˜ž

        To be clear - I am not blaming the app, but I do think reason is in map database, app is only using the info embeded in the maps (categorization of roads, positioning, etc etc) So I guess, having a serious navigation requires serious map database....

        Segments like this make a difference - green is HERE maps, imagin going through center of busy tunis cities....
        0389c8fc-0dc2-4626-95a7-666d7e904d22-image.png

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        • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
          Jure Sirena 0
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          When you say
          To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.

          Everything in practice shows this is not true, it seems MRA N always chooses shortest route

          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

            When you say
            To use MRA Navigation (Next) it is best to plan your route in the Here map. With A to B routes (which you probably use) only in the app and therefore the Here map, you know for sure that you have the fastest route, because that's how the routing of the Here map is set.

            Everything in practice shows this is not true, it seems MRA N always chooses shortest route

            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
            Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
            Instructor RouteXperts administrator
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            @Jure-Sirena-0

            @Jure-Sirena-0 Thanks for your input, MRA Navigation (Next) is still in the development phase, so things will definitely improve

            Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
            Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

            Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

              @Jure-Sirena-0

              @Jure-Sirena-0 Thanks for your input, MRA Navigation (Next) is still in the development phase, so things will definitely improve

              Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
              Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
              Jure Sirena 0
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master
              Keep it up!

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              • Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                Corjan Meijerink
                administrator
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                A quick follow up here: by default the toll road are disabled. This means that the app will not use them if an alternative is possible.

                In a next update (not the upcoming) more routing preferences will be added ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

                Tumbleweedundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Corjan Meijerinkundefined Corjan Meijerink

                  A quick follow up here: by default the toll road are disabled. This means that the app will not use them if an alternative is possible.

                  In a next update (not the upcoming) more routing preferences will be added ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

                  Tumbleweedundefined Offline
                  Tumbleweedundefined Offline
                  Tumbleweed
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  @Corjan-Meijerink
                  When I use the app to make a route somewhere I want to go in Canada it uses Toll roads before non toll on the route it makes. I hate this, I should be able to pick no tolls, dirt roads, etc.

                  Corjan Meijerinkundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Tumbleweedundefined Tumbleweed

                    @Corjan-Meijerink
                    When I use the app to make a route somewhere I want to go in Canada it uses Toll roads before non toll on the route it makes. I hate this, I should be able to pick no tolls, dirt roads, etc.

                    Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                    Corjan Meijerinkundefined Offline
                    Corjan Meijerink
                    administrator
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    @Tumbleweed Yes, I completely understand. Therefore we are implementing it in another iteration ๐Ÿ˜‰ No worries! It's still a Beta app and we need to prioritise what features we pick first.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                      Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                      Jure Sirena 0
                      wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
                      #24

                      I prepared the routes for Tunisia, but I must say to my dissapointment I cannot use the app - and main reason is HERE maps.....from begining of this post I suspected the reason for bad navigation is in the HERE maps.

                      1.case (same route just changing maps)
                      When I create route, it takes me FAR FAR around between waypoint 10-11, because lots of MAIN roads are missing: HERE MAPS
                      faf1fde9-40d8-4433-b04f-ca919a51cf15-image.png

                      Tomtom maps (more then 3h less)
                      64d2c9f8-09c4-4dff-91c4-89208b380348-image.png

                      Openstreet maps
                      e022d76c-4ef1-49ce-9268-b2afc98f0c5e-image.png

                      Comparing route on both maps
                      e16c159c-9dff-4b94-bbe3-1a971e22b827-image.png

                      1. case
                        Here maps is green, you can also see that it wants to take me straight through Sahara desert sand to waypoint 15....skipping points 12,13,14??

                      3.case
                      Between point 8 and 9 takes road that is not driveable...etc

                      1. case
                        from point 3 it takes unexisting road again

                      Since the MRA usas the wors map option - HERE I cant use the app on my trip....
                      And I noticed lots of this map errors driving in central Europe.
                      Time to invest in maps guys....

                      Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                        I prepared the routes for Tunisia, but I must say to my dissapointment I cannot use the app - and main reason is HERE maps.....from begining of this post I suspected the reason for bad navigation is in the HERE maps.

                        1.case (same route just changing maps)
                        When I create route, it takes me FAR FAR around between waypoint 10-11, because lots of MAIN roads are missing: HERE MAPS
                        faf1fde9-40d8-4433-b04f-ca919a51cf15-image.png

                        Tomtom maps (more then 3h less)
                        64d2c9f8-09c4-4dff-91c4-89208b380348-image.png

                        Openstreet maps
                        e022d76c-4ef1-49ce-9268-b2afc98f0c5e-image.png

                        Comparing route on both maps
                        e16c159c-9dff-4b94-bbe3-1a971e22b827-image.png

                        1. case
                          Here maps is green, you can also see that it wants to take me straight through Sahara desert sand to waypoint 15....skipping points 12,13,14??

                        3.case
                        Between point 8 and 9 takes road that is not driveable...etc

                        1. case
                          from point 3 it takes unexisting road again

                        Since the MRA usas the wors map option - HERE I cant use the app on my trip....
                        And I noticed lots of this map errors driving in central Europe.
                        Time to invest in maps guys....

                        Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                        Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                        Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                        Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                        wrote on last edited by Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                        #25

                        @Jure-Sirena-0

                        Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                        The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                        cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                        Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                        Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                        Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

                          @Jure-Sirena-0

                          Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                          The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                          cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                          Jure Sirena 0
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master said in Quality of navigation:

                          @Jure-Sirena-0

                          Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                          The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                          cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                          What is the point if the user has to make route and not the tool? Will I always need to g oto other tools to see roads and manually create points for every wrong paths in routes? Sorry it does not work like that especially on not known terriotries.
                          Thats my original point - qiality of navigation.

                          Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                            Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                            Jure Sirena 0
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            Of course it was HERE and no tool kits activated

                            2d8e48b2-dedb-4738-9542-71bce41f6367-image.png

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                            • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                              Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                              Jure Sirena 0
                              wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
                              #28

                              And the next stupid thing is - when I implement what you suggest time falls significantly. This way user is more smart then the tool. Tthe tool should do that!!

                              It was 13h2m at original route
                              edb8befb-a64d-44af-bd25-85c77ebc7b5a-image.png

                              then time (and distance) drops for 30 min when i add points 11 and 17 to tell the tool that its giving me wrong direction....

                              a5e5339e-585c-462f-a8e8-4853221a9245-image.png

                              This should net be happening, I loose complete faith in navigation ๐Ÿ˜ž

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                              • Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                Jure Sirena 0
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                And even after doing that keeps insisting (HERE in green, TomTom or google in black) not to take main road that tomtom, google or even openstreet maps would

                                0f895a0f-5e5a-445b-ba16-bf05a5e480b7-image.png

                                So now I should again manualy put a point to black line tell the HERE maps they are wrong. And if I would do that time and distance would fell again.

                                Maybe there is a hidden 'adrenalin' option in the tool ๐Ÿ™‚

                                Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                                  And even after doing that keeps insisting (HERE in green, TomTom or google in black) not to take main road that tomtom, google or even openstreet maps would

                                  0f895a0f-5e5a-445b-ba16-bf05a5e480b7-image.png

                                  So now I should again manualy put a point to black line tell the HERE maps they are wrong. And if I would do that time and distance would fell again.

                                  Maybe there is a hidden 'adrenalin' option in the tool ๐Ÿ™‚

                                  Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                  Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                  Con Hennekens
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  @Jure-Sirena-0, You must consider that different map-creators use different methods to qualify roads. The R114 is barely visible on the Here map. That could be an error on the map, or a deliberate advise to NOT take that road, that other map-creator oversee. Google Streetview is not available for that road, which could be a sign for it to be not much more than an unpaved road, I don't know. If I plot a route from Tatouine to Douz, it takes 4h27 over the R114 and only 4h16 taking the longer route (that differs not more than 10km). I think you have some misplaced waypoints in your route, that count for the increase in time and distance. You can search for even more different map manufacturers. That will all come up with different times and distances. That does not make one or more of them bad.

                                  d3acaa4a-e960-4971-9ae6-a742b6a1b860-image.png

                                  The essence of route-planning is to plan in the same map as your navigation device uses, to minimize differences (or use the track to navigate in third party device).

                                  I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                                  Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                                  Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                                    @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master said in Quality of navigation:

                                    @Jure-Sirena-0

                                    Just zoom in and place some extra shaping points
                                    The here map is good for navigating, or is it due to the route taken?

                                    cff7966b-53ed-49f1-a8e1-3ffd43286936-image.png

                                    What is the point if the user has to make route and not the tool? Will I always need to g oto other tools to see roads and manually create points for every wrong paths in routes? Sorry it does not work like that especially on not known terriotries.
                                    Thats my original point - qiality of navigation.

                                    Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                                    Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Offline
                                    Hans van de Ven MR.MRA
                                    Instructor RouteXperts administrator
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    @Jure-Sirena-0
                                    As @Con-Hennekens also points out each map has its own data set and capabilities. Sometimes you have to force the route to take a certain road that you want by means of an extra waypoint.
                                    Well, if that's too much work... Then you should indeed let your navigation system do the work. This works well for A to B routes, but if you want to drive a specific route, you will have to turn it off manually. That has nothing to do with the quality of the navigation

                                    Garmin Zumo XT2/XT/BMW Connected Ride Navigator/MyRouteapp (The App)
                                    Een dag niet gelachen is een dag niet geleefd / Een route is net zo goed als deze uitgezet is.

                                    Jure Sirena 0undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Hans van de Ven MR.MRAundefined Hans van de Ven MR.MRA

                                      @Jure-Sirena-0
                                      As @Con-Hennekens also points out each map has its own data set and capabilities. Sometimes you have to force the route to take a certain road that you want by means of an extra waypoint.
                                      Well, if that's too much work... Then you should indeed let your navigation system do the work. This works well for A to B routes, but if you want to drive a specific route, you will have to turn it off manually. That has nothing to do with the quality of the navigation

                                      Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                      Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                      Jure Sirena 0
                                      wrote on last edited by Jure Sirena 0
                                      #32

                                      @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master Its what I am saying categorization of maps is baseline for proper navigation.

                                      And believe me guys this is ONE OF THE MOST visited roads in Tunisia, a must for motorcycle. I take tours as guid there regulary. The road also leads to one of the most visited Oasis for turists Ksar Ghilane , Saying this road is not advisable is not serious, every motorcycle trip goes to Ghilane oasis. This is by no means a specific route, this is main road and fastest option.

                                      I dont know if my point was considered, I have a feeling the problem is not addressed properly or tried to be avoided because to solve it you need to pay for proper updated maps. What I am saying its not a case of app, its problem with maps, as this are generaly available maps. But problem is then related to app itself as it uses it.

                                      You also dont understand me that I use same waypoints on same route so saying that I missplaced waypoints is also funny - I only change the maps top right, I dont shuffle any points.

                                      So I close it here, no point discussing any more, what I am sure is that users will come back to this when season opens.

                                      I rest my case:
                                      f9e74c37-f64a-48a1-9301-990b1181e6f5-image.png
                                      Br

                                      Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • Jure Sirena 0undefined Jure Sirena 0

                                        @Hans-van-de-Ven-MRA-Master Its what I am saying categorization of maps is baseline for proper navigation.

                                        And believe me guys this is ONE OF THE MOST visited roads in Tunisia, a must for motorcycle. I take tours as guid there regulary. The road also leads to one of the most visited Oasis for turists Ksar Ghilane , Saying this road is not advisable is not serious, every motorcycle trip goes to Ghilane oasis. This is by no means a specific route, this is main road and fastest option.

                                        I dont know if my point was considered, I have a feeling the problem is not addressed properly or tried to be avoided because to solve it you need to pay for proper updated maps. What I am saying its not a case of app, its problem with maps, as this are generaly available maps. But problem is then related to app itself as it uses it.

                                        You also dont understand me that I use same waypoints on same route so saying that I missplaced waypoints is also funny - I only change the maps top right, I dont shuffle any points.

                                        So I close it here, no point discussing any more, what I am sure is that users will come back to this when season opens.

                                        I rest my case:
                                        f9e74c37-f64a-48a1-9301-990b1181e6f5-image.png
                                        Br

                                        Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                        Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                        Con Hennekens
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        @Jure-Sirena-0, This part of your route
                                        7bbeb1a2-84e8-47de-aec1-e47d7cf11321-image.png

                                        Is clearly something of a loop due to differences in route calculation between maps. I don't know where the enormous amount of driving time comes from, but also that is an indication for the route being driven almost twice.

                                        And as I said, it could be an error in the Here map. Errors can be submitted here: https://mapfeedback.here.com/#/report

                                        If you are a tourguide, Here will welcome your input. We improve Here together, it is not a responsibility of MRA, nor of the volunteers on this forum. Also a tourguide would have no problems adding a few WP's to guarantee the correctness of a route.

                                        I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                                        Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                                        Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

                                        Jure Sirena 0undefined 2 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • Con Hennekensundefined Con Hennekens

                                          @Jure-Sirena-0, This part of your route
                                          7bbeb1a2-84e8-47de-aec1-e47d7cf11321-image.png

                                          Is clearly something of a loop due to differences in route calculation between maps. I don't know where the enormous amount of driving time comes from, but also that is an indication for the route being driven almost twice.

                                          And as I said, it could be an error in the Here map. Errors can be submitted here: https://mapfeedback.here.com/#/report

                                          If you are a tourguide, Here will welcome your input. We improve Here together, it is not a responsibility of MRA, nor of the volunteers on this forum. Also a tourguide would have no problems adding a few WP's to guarantee the correctness of a route.

                                          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                          Jure Sirena 0undefined Offline
                                          Jure Sirena 0
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          @Con-Hennekens you can see that I added point 17 telling the route not to go

                                          Let me zoom in this part
                                          My original, I go from 14 over 15 to 16 - 14 to 16 is paved road in desert. At 16 there is a Cafe Desert, a popular stop for everyone. Then the hotel is at 17 - same way back, but the maps take me from 16 to 17 through different road (red arrows). This road does not exist, believe me. This are deep sand dunes special vehicles can go there

                                          aacc34a1-d24e-4837-84c4-7cd78f3d5901-image.png

                                          So it is the maps that give wrong picture/way not waypoints

                                          And when I add point 17 (mandatory) in order to go back same-proper way to hotel without changing any of other waypoints

                                          cedea9f3-b581-4b68-a0ee-ddaf60da2298-image.png

                                          Then it reroutes correctly. Again if you dont know that you are f...
                                          But the point is that google, tomtom, openstreet maps KNOW tha and will route you correctly, with no need of additional manual points, only when using HERE the paths are strange and you need to manualy corect it
                                          Regarding google street view is from 2016....lots of roads are repaired, including this one with points 14-15-16 its paved now

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