App does recalculate despite recalculation setting being off

[Nick Carthew]

@Herman-Veldhuizen said in App does recalculate despite recalculation setting being off:

@M-Schrijver As far as I can understand, if the next point on my route is an artificial shaping point then it will be that point which will be displayed in the lower info box (with distance and time). Please correct me if I am wrong. If the next stop is an hour way it would for me not be acceptable to have a distance and time displayed for an artificial point half way.

Please stop calling them ‘artificial’ shaping points, there is nothing artificial about them, they are shaping points designed and needed to shape your route and use the roads that you want to drive on. If you do not want to see the time and distance to each shaping point, tap the ETA box (lower info box as you call it) and you can choose to have time and distance to next via point (bus stop). Each tap will scroll through different options for time and distance to next shaping point, via point or destination.

I understand that every software needs to be used in a certain way and I can make it work for myself for my trips in my free time. Using the software in a commercial setting is a different story. Its up to the developers to tap into that market or not. I,ll be happy to invite you all as a passenger on one of my bus rides in Norway.

If you want to use the app for commercial use, maybe speak with your bosses at your bus company, they could invest some money in MRA!

[Herman Veldhuizen]

@Nick-Carthew Well my company will ask me whether I think the app has potential.... As I said before the App kan be a killer app as it is a very complete package. When I want to drive from A to B Tomtom is hard to beat. When I want to drive hands-off from A to B, C etc... the options are none at the moment.
If the owners or advocates of the App at this stage are unable to understand my use case I will tell my employer to put an evaluation on hold. Sorry to say but if you want to sell the product this is not the way to talk to a paying customer.

[Nick Carthew]

@Herman-Veldhuizen said in App does recalculate despite recalculation setting being off:

@Nick-Carthew Well my company will ask me whether I think the app has potential....

If the owners or advocates of the App at this stage are unable to understand my use case I will tell my employer to put an evaluation on hold.

I think that you as a user have to fully understand how the app works and what it has been designed to do to be able to fully evaluate the app.
You can’t ask the developers to change the design of the app just to suit your needs. A lot of discussions have taken place between the developers and users to get the app to where it is today.

From what I understand you would like to use the app to give instructions for your bus routes. If it was me designing your bus routes, I would use as many shaping points as was required and then use a via point at each bus stop. With the ETA box set to via points, time and distance to the next stop is seen in the ETA box.

If you require more than that, then I have misunderstood your requirements, perhaps you could explain more.

[Herman Veldhuizen]

@Nick-Carthew I used to be a hardcore developer myself and am therefore not good at reading documentation.... Sorry that I have used the forum to ask for advice or solutions. I am not expecting any fix anytime soon. Having the team to understand my use case is already more than I could ask for. I can see that this App has potential to help me in my work. I am sure that as the user base grows, the app will eventually support my use case and then I will also be more than happy to promote the App to my colleagues and leaders. I have looked at many apps and it is maybe not surprising that I found the Apps targeted for motor cyclists (Kurviger, Beeline, MRA) the most useful as driving a buss is in one way like driving a scenic route with a bike : we are after a set of stops. A new market for MRA? How cool is that. Be happy that I share my use case with you.

And I'll be happy to explain my use case a bit more. Please also have a look at my other post named "Skip waypoint truely automatic" (https://forum.myrouteapp.com/post/56873) .

Passengers often need to know when we will arrive at the next stop. When distances between stops are large (up to 70 km) this is not so easy to answer without help of a navigation app. The ETA box for the next possible busstop is a KEY feature to me.

I never know upfront whether I need to stop at a busstop or not as new passengers can book online up to 15 minutes before the buss passes the stop (which typically is off the highway). Now imagine driving at 100km/h with passengers in the buss and I need to tap the screen to find the correct arrival time to the busstop which comes after the one I just ignored (because no bookings came in for that stop, we can see that while driving). Tapping on the screen while driving is an absolute no-go in my environment. Hands-off is KEY .

When I know the route (usually this is the case) I drive without audio instructions for navigation. In the case that I drive a route which is new to me I would then drive with audio instructions. The navigation instructions are therefore also a key feature .

Hope this clarifies it a bit better.

[Con Hennekens]

@Herman-Veldhuizen said in App does recalculate despite recalculation setting being off:

we are after a set of stops. A new market for MRA? How cool is that. Be happy that I share my use case with you.

It is perfectly fine to share your use case, and MRA has definitely proved to be open-minded about and interested in them. It amazes me how people sometimes think their use ase is so much different from others. In your case, being after a set of stops, the usual method is to put VIA points at your stops, and have the rest as shaping points. The ETA tile can show ETA to VIA points only. It is just that when you do not hit a certain stop, that you need to tap the waypoint tile once, which is inherent to the "I won't stop at an obligatory stop" decision.

In all honesty I think that if you would want to automate that, a third waypoint type would need to be introduced. That would make life harder for many "normal" users as many already have problems understanding the difference between the existing ones as it is.

Another approach would be to introduce an "include as VIA ETA" toggle to all waypoints, that is off for shaping points and on for VIA points by default. But also that would probably raise a lot of questions among the current userbase, but at least is not hard to do programmatically. Maybe MRA is able to make a custom app for your specific use case? Depends on what your boss is willing to pay I suppose

[Martin Wilcke]

@Con-Hennekens
I don't think we need a third waypoint type or another switch.

With automatic recalculation switched on, it is understandable that SPs are automatically skipped and VPs are not. This is part of the concept of VPs and SPs.

But switching off automatic recalculation can be understood as "I know what I'm doing, find my way on my own and don't need any support in the form of a re-routing". Most users would expect the app not to interfere - not if I don't return to the route at all or travel in the wrong direction. And indeed, not if I skip a waypoint that was initially planned - regardless of whether it's an SP or VP.

That's exactly what @Herman-Veldhuizen expected, and that's also what I would expect.

As the current way (the app routes back to a VP even when automatic recalculation is switched off) is confusing, I suggest changing that.
This will add clarity to not-so-advanced users while experts can easily adopt the new behaviour.

[Con Hennekens]

@Martin-Wilcke, indeed, and I am not really against changing that behaviour. Bit TS wants to have an ETA to the next point. I don't think that is possible when there really is no recalculation. Certainly not if you divert from the route (or track).

[Herman Veldhuizen]

@Con-Hennekens I don't know what TS stands for but I would expect the app to just show a question mark for the ETA if I was not on the track (and with no recalculation).

[Con Hennekens]

@Herman-Veldhuizen, TS stands for Topic Starter, being you From earlier messages in this thread I understood that you need to know the ETA to the first stop.

[Martin Wilcke]

@Con-Hennekens @Herman-Veldhuizen

I 100% agree!

As long as I'm "off-route", I would not expect to get any information/assistance like turn-by-turn, next WP, ETAs or distances - just the original route as a blue line.
As soon I'm back "on-route", I expect this information to appear again and, of course, adjust accordingly.

And, to cover this as well, touching the blue line but travelling the wrong direction is "off-route".

[Herman Veldhuizen]

@Con-Hennekens Mmm , not sure how I made that impression but in my use case I don't need the ETA to the very first stop. Its ok to have it but I don't need it. I usually start the App when I am at the first stop.
Then while driving I need to see the ETA to the next possible stop.

My current workaround is to use shaping points for the stops and to ignore the road sections which the app comes up with which don't represent how I drive. It's workable for me but not good enough for sharing with others. Ideally I could use via points for my stops and I would be free to add as many shaping points as needed to shape my route. The fact that via points are not skippable (without intervention) prevents me from doing this .

[Nick Carthew]

@Herman-Veldhuizen I'm not sure how the law in your country works, but the law in the UK says that you cannot have a phone or GPS unit in your hand while driving. The law does not specifically stop you from interreacting with the device if the device is in a fixed holder, for instance, it would be acceptable to tap the next waypoint icon (top right of screen) to skip the next waypoint. Let's face it, tapping the screen of a phone/satnav is no different to changing the heater settings or radio station. But I expect the law (police) would look differently upon the situation if you were searching through the menu for an item.
So unless this is impossible in your country, my suggestion of using via points for your stops and showing the ETA to the next via point is about the best option you have. If you do not need to visit one of your stops (via points) tap the next waypoint icon when that via point appears.

[Herman Veldhuizen]

@Nick-Carthew The law is one thing. Which solution is the best for me is something I know best. My current solution means that I use the app. The solution suggested by you means I wont use it and I would not dare to share the route with others. Thank God we still have busses (despite being brand new) which require almost no fiddeling while driving. The only fiddling I have to do is to close the vents when entering a tunnel.

[Con Hennekens]

@Herman-Veldhuizen said in App does recalculate despite recalculation setting being off:

Then while driving I need to see the ETA to the next possible stop.

Yes that's what I meant of course, the first stop in line.
Let's see if devs (they are reading along) see a possibility to a plausible solution for you.