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Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved [Beta] Problems, Bugs and other Issues
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  • Jack van Tilburgundefined Jack van Tilburg

    @Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

    the same functional settings

    Did you look at the setting that are shown in the first screen after opening a route for navigation too?

    1.jpeg

    2.jpeg

    Con Hennekensundefined Offline
    Con Hennekensundefined Offline
    Con Hennekens
    Alpha tester
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    @Jack-van-Tilburg, Those settings are deemed to be equal for them both, since they are inherited from the online route nowadays. Unless they were altered manually before starting the route of course.

    I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

    Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

    Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

    Jack van Tilburgundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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    • Con Hennekensundefined Con Hennekens

      @Jack-van-Tilburg, Those settings are deemed to be equal for them both, since they are inherited from the online route nowadays. Unless they were altered manually before starting the route of course.

      Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
      Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
      Jack van Tilburg
      wrote on last edited by
      #14

      @Con-Hennekens
      So is a difference ruled out?

      Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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      • Jack van Tilburgundefined Jack van Tilburg

        @Con-Hennekens
        So is a difference ruled out?

        Con Hennekensundefined Offline
        Con Hennekensundefined Offline
        Con Hennekens
        Alpha tester
        wrote on last edited by Con Hennekens
        #15

        @Jack-van-Tilburg, if not altered manually at the location you show, I think yes.
        If the impact of the routing options was that big, it would already be visible in the route overview window where you press Start too.

        Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?

        I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

        Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

        Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

        Jack van Tilburgundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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        • Con Hennekensundefined Con Hennekens

          @Jack-van-Tilburg, if not altered manually at the location you show, I think yes.
          If the impact of the routing options was that big, it would already be visible in the route overview window where you press Start too.

          Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?

          Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
          Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
          Jack van Tilburg
          wrote on last edited by
          #16

          @Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

          Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?

          Yes it does. More then mine i should say.
          But even your option doesn't exclude un unintended action of the user.

          Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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          • Jack van Tilburgundefined Jack van Tilburg

            @Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

            Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?

            Yes it does. More then mine i should say.
            But even your option doesn't exclude un unintended action of the user.

            Con Hennekensundefined Offline
            Con Hennekensundefined Offline
            Con Hennekens
            Alpha tester
            wrote on last edited by
            #17

            @Jack-van-Tilburg, certainly not indeed.

            I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

            Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

            Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

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            • richtea999undefined Offline
              richtea999undefined Offline
              richtea999
              Valued contributor
              wrote on last edited by richtea999
              #18

              All your points are plain 'waypoints' / shaping points, which means they're not mandatory and can be skipped, should the routing engine dynamically decide it knows better.

              Change one (or more) of the waypoints - say point 3 - to a 'via' point, i.e. a point that you must pass through. Then the routing engine should behave as you expect.

              You can do that by tapping on the hand symbol (possibly teaching Grandma to suck eggs, here - sorry!):
              Screenshot 2023-07-13 at 13.39.41.png

              I think the only downside to via points is if there's a road closure, serious traffic problem, etc, it will still attempt to get you to go through that 'via' point, which could cause some interesting routing.
              For example if the road was closed a mile after your point 2 then the routing engine would do some complex re-routing to make sure you still got to point 3, whereas in real life, you might just think - 'forget it, let's go another route today'.

              All that fluff above doesn't explain why both instances of the app didn't behave in a similar manner, but it might help get them better aligned next time. 😊

              Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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              • richtea999undefined richtea999

                All your points are plain 'waypoints' / shaping points, which means they're not mandatory and can be skipped, should the routing engine dynamically decide it knows better.

                Change one (or more) of the waypoints - say point 3 - to a 'via' point, i.e. a point that you must pass through. Then the routing engine should behave as you expect.

                You can do that by tapping on the hand symbol (possibly teaching Grandma to suck eggs, here - sorry!):
                Screenshot 2023-07-13 at 13.39.41.png

                I think the only downside to via points is if there's a road closure, serious traffic problem, etc, it will still attempt to get you to go through that 'via' point, which could cause some interesting routing.
                For example if the road was closed a mile after your point 2 then the routing engine would do some complex re-routing to make sure you still got to point 3, whereas in real life, you might just think - 'forget it, let's go another route today'.

                All that fluff above doesn't explain why both instances of the app didn't behave in a similar manner, but it might help get them better aligned next time. 😊

                Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                Con Hennekens
                Alpha tester
                wrote on last edited by Con Hennekens
                #19

                @richtea999, It seems I keep repeating myself, but my pictures above show that even if WP3 was a viapoint, by skipping WP2 the navigation would take the long way up north to WP3 because it is quicker than the winding roads down south.

                Via points are used to indicate mandatory waypoints, nothing more. The ultimate reason why the deviation after skipping WP2 is so big, is that there are not enough shaping points in the route to force it down south.

                I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

                richtea999undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Con Hennekensundefined Con Hennekens

                  @richtea999, It seems I keep repeating myself, but my pictures above show that even if WP3 was a viapoint, by skipping WP2 the navigation would take the long way up north to WP3 because it is quicker than the winding roads down south.

                  Via points are used to indicate mandatory waypoints, nothing more. The ultimate reason why the deviation after skipping WP2 is so big, is that there are not enough shaping points in the route to force it down south.

                  richtea999undefined Offline
                  richtea999undefined Offline
                  richtea999
                  Valued contributor
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #20

                  @Con-Hennekens You're right, Con - apologies. I have had similar oddities that seem to have been solved by using 'via' points. Maybe that was just luck.

                  Maybe the route planner needs an extra option:

                  • calculate shortest route
                  Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • richtea999undefined richtea999

                    @Con-Hennekens You're right, Con - apologies. I have had similar oddities that seem to have been solved by using 'via' points. Maybe that was just luck.

                    Maybe the route planner needs an extra option:

                    • calculate shortest route
                    Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                    Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                    Con Hennekens
                    Alpha tester
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #21

                    @richtea999, if WP2 was a via point, then that one would not have been auto-skipped. But the same thing could happen for all other shaping points. A "shortest route" option would most likely have prevented TS his problem, but would also have introduced the same problem here:

                    00572001-4be2-4050-8e62-6b15c4155057-image.png

                    It would have chosen the northern route instead of the southern one). The essence (still) being: not enough shaping points... There is no substitute for shaping points! Only driving a track maybe, but for that you'll have to give up waypoints altogether.

                    I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                    Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                    Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

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                    • Con Hennekensundefined Con Hennekens

                      @Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

                      I understand about the placement of waypoints, but that doesn't address the main point

                      I think it does... Obviously your pal Mike skipped WP2 somehow. Be it by an unintended manual skip, or by a premature skipping by the app itself. Long-pressing WP2 would have put you in the same direction again. My pictures above illustrate that skipping only WP2 has the effect you experienced.

                      Jem Cottonundefined Offline
                      Jem Cottonundefined Offline
                      Jem Cotton
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #22

                      @Con-Hennekens

                      Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.

                      ... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.

                      It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...

                      ChJem

                      Jack van Tilburgundefined Con Hennekensundefined Rob Verhoeffundefined 3 Replies Last reply
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                      • Jem Cottonundefined Jem Cotton

                        @Con-Hennekens

                        Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.

                        ... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.

                        It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...

                        ChJem

                        Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
                        Jack van Tilburgundefined Offline
                        Jack van Tilburg
                        wrote on last edited by Jack van Tilburg
                        #23

                        @Jem-Cotton

                        It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software

                        To be able to explain a deviation/cause, you will have to rule out all possibilities.
                        Given that you you self indicate that all technical settings are basically the same, it makes sense to investigate whether an unintentionally human act can be the cause.
                        It's not an accusation. In fact, we are all curious about the cause, you can tell by the number of messages and possibilities in this topic. All based on help and interest.

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                        • Jem Cottonundefined Jem Cotton

                          @Con-Hennekens

                          Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.

                          ... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.

                          It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...

                          ChJem

                          Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                          Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                          Con Hennekens
                          Alpha tester
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #24

                          @Jem-Cotton, I am not blaming anyone. I am trying to find a plausible explanation to an event no one else has been reporting to this extend. I guess it is easier to blame the software, than to look for potential human error... (easy saying, isn't it?)

                          Now that is out of of the way 😉 : What I am trying to show (and seems to be difficult to grasp by many, proven by the replies I got) is that it is quite plausible that ONLY wp2 was skipped. The route goes up North but still towards WP3 quickest way. To reach WP3 you follow the route in reverse order along 5, 4, 3 so it looks like you are directed to 6.

                          I took quite some effort in looking into your route and making the screenshots. Please tell me if you don't want me to help you, I'll stop, since I have better things to do than to help someone who does not appreciate it.

                          I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                          Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                          Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

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                          • Jem Cottonundefined Jem Cotton

                            @Con-Hennekens

                            Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.

                            ... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.

                            It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...

                            ChJem

                            Rob Verhoeffundefined Online
                            Rob Verhoeffundefined Online
                            Rob Verhoeff
                            Alpha tester
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #25

                            @Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

                            It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...

                            Of course, there could be an error in the software. I believe that all software contains errors to some extent. However, no one here has said that it's your fault! Considering the many responses to guide you in the right direction, I don't think anyone holds it against you. Instead, I would suggest taking the recommendations given to heart when compiling your next route.

                            BMW K1600GT-P (2013) with BMW Navigator V | Nolan N100-5 with Sena 30K
                            iOS on iPhone 13 (mounted on Quadlock)
                            Apple CarPlay in VW T-Roc (wired)
                            Routelab on MacBook Air & iMac (Ventura & Monterey)

                            Jem Cottonundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Rob Verhoeffundefined Rob Verhoeff

                              @Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

                              It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...

                              Of course, there could be an error in the software. I believe that all software contains errors to some extent. However, no one here has said that it's your fault! Considering the many responses to guide you in the right direction, I don't think anyone holds it against you. Instead, I would suggest taking the recommendations given to heart when compiling your next route.

                              Jem Cottonundefined Offline
                              Jem Cottonundefined Offline
                              Jem Cotton
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #26

                              @Rob-Verhoeff

                              Thanks everyone for your interest and replies.

                              I'm not offended or anything, but wanted to point out that as fairly experienced users, it was highly unlikely that a waypoint was skipped by accident.

                              Mike and I use that functionality frequently, and with gloves on, it takes some purpose to achieve, especially as you have to confirm the choice.

                              For that reason, I ruled it out as a realistic explanation.

                              That leaves an unexplained difference between the two instances of the app, which for me is a little worrying.

                              I'll make sure to feature viapoints a little more liberally to try to prevent it in future.

                              Happy travels all.

                              Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • Jem Cottonundefined Jem Cotton

                                @Rob-Verhoeff

                                Thanks everyone for your interest and replies.

                                I'm not offended or anything, but wanted to point out that as fairly experienced users, it was highly unlikely that a waypoint was skipped by accident.

                                Mike and I use that functionality frequently, and with gloves on, it takes some purpose to achieve, especially as you have to confirm the choice.

                                For that reason, I ruled it out as a realistic explanation.

                                That leaves an unexplained difference between the two instances of the app, which for me is a little worrying.

                                I'll make sure to feature viapoints a little more liberally to try to prevent it in future.

                                Happy travels all.

                                Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                Con Hennekens
                                Alpha tester
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #27

                                @Jem-Cotton, I advise against that. It means that such a via point will NOT be skipped automatically if you miss it for whatever reason. That cure is probably worse than the disease. Besides, I already showed above that there is no substitute for enough waypoints.

                                I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                                Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                                Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

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                                • richtea999undefined Offline
                                  richtea999undefined Offline
                                  richtea999
                                  Valued contributor
                                  wrote on last edited by richtea999
                                  #28

                                  @Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

                                  I advise against that. It means that such a via point will NOT be skipped automatically if you miss it for whatever reason. That cure is probably worse than the disease.

                                  It's an interesting problem. The OP builds a route to ride, but the router says no. It doesn't offer an explanation as to why the planned route is being deviated from. Google does in terms of 'Shorter route available' type suggestions.

                                  Maybe an explanation popup just before the deviation point would solve a lot of the routing problems reported. I've also had similar issues with closed roads causing the routing engine to appear to misbehave because there was no (obvious) explanation given. The router was doing it's best, but as a user it's not always obvious why the route changes.

                                  Con Hennekensundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • richtea999undefined richtea999

                                    @Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:

                                    I advise against that. It means that such a via point will NOT be skipped automatically if you miss it for whatever reason. That cure is probably worse than the disease.

                                    It's an interesting problem. The OP builds a route to ride, but the router says no. It doesn't offer an explanation as to why the planned route is being deviated from. Google does in terms of 'Shorter route available' type suggestions.

                                    Maybe an explanation popup just before the deviation point would solve a lot of the routing problems reported. I've also had similar issues with closed roads causing the routing engine to appear to misbehave because there was no (obvious) explanation given. The router was doing it's best, but as a user it's not always obvious why the route changes.

                                    Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                    Con Hennekensundefined Offline
                                    Con Hennekens
                                    Alpha tester
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #29

                                    @richtea999, I think it is rather clear what happened. WP2 has been skipped. That leads exactly to what was described: the route appears to continue to WP6, but in reality it is still going the quickest way to WP3.

                                    I would not be surprised if it was skipped by personal accident, but I am okay to assume it wasn't that, as Jem and his friend explained to be experienced. The question we should be asking next is: why does it seem to happen every now and then, that waypoints are being auto-skipped prematurely sometimes many kilometers in advance. You know, ultimately @Jem-Cotton is not the first where this happened.

                                    I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!

                                    Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.

                                    Streetpilot 2610 / Zumo 660 / Zumo 395 / CAT S52 + MRA app

                                    richtea999undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • Con Hennekensundefined Con Hennekens

                                      @richtea999, I think it is rather clear what happened. WP2 has been skipped. That leads exactly to what was described: the route appears to continue to WP6, but in reality it is still going the quickest way to WP3.

                                      I would not be surprised if it was skipped by personal accident, but I am okay to assume it wasn't that, as Jem and his friend explained to be experienced. The question we should be asking next is: why does it seem to happen every now and then, that waypoints are being auto-skipped prematurely sometimes many kilometers in advance. You know, ultimately @Jem-Cotton is not the first where this happened.

                                      richtea999undefined Offline
                                      richtea999undefined Offline
                                      richtea999
                                      Valued contributor
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #30

                                      @richtea999 said:

                                      It doesn't offer an explanation as to why the planned route is being deviated from.

                                      @Con-Hennekens said:

                                      @richtea999, I think it is rather clear what happened. WP2 has been skipped.

                                      'Why' and 'what' aren't the same thing.
                                      Jem knew what happened - but not why. That was my long-winded point. 🙂

                                      If the router knows the original route is closed/jammed with traffic, then ideally it should let the user know and, even better, give a choice of what to do next.

                                      It may be that HERE router doesn't give that information, but if it does it would be brilliant to see it.

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