Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp
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@Con-Hennekens @Jem-Cotton And that brings me exactly to my point of placing a waypoint after every important intersection or road split, at the very least. You can easily skip a 40km stretch without a waypoint, especially when the route winds through the mountains with no side roads.
@Rob-Verhoeff said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
You can easily skip a 40km stretch without a waypoint, especially when the route winds through the mountains with no side roads.
Yes you can indeed. There are not much alternatives if there are no side roads
. But the further the waypoints are apart, the more impact skipping a waypoint can have. That's what we are seeing here.I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Rob-Verhoeff said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
You can easily skip a 40km stretch without a waypoint, especially when the route winds through the mountains with no side roads.
Yes you can indeed. There are not much alternatives if there are no side roads
. But the further the waypoints are apart, the more impact skipping a waypoint can have. That's what we are seeing here.Hi all,
I understand about the placement of waypoints, but that doesn't address the main point of my issue which is ..
Why would 2 MRA apps with the same version and same downloaded maps, and sharing exactly the same route ... make different route choices?
Cheers, Jem
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Hi,
As you may know I've been travelling throughout mainland Europe recently with a mate - Mike.
To ensure that we followed exactly the same route, Mike and I both subscribed to the new app as lifetime members. I also have RouteLab lifetime gold.
I use Android, Mike is on ios. However, I made sure that we were on the same app release (4.02 - 203) had the same map download release, and the same functional settings - see attachment.
I set a daily route and shared it with Mike via WhatsApp link. This works great initially.
We suffered a number of points however, where our SatNavs disagreed on the route - minor at first, then ...
See pic attached. My planned route was to make a sharp left at the circled point, headed for the numbered shaping points.
As we approached the junction, Mike stopped me as his Mra nav was pointing straight on!
This would mean skipping a number of the shaping points - and the interesting route I had planned.
I find it disconcerting that despite our best efforts to create a unified route, we keep having to stop to discuss differences - minor and major.
Am I missing something in the setup? Are we able to correct this, and drive a single agreed route?
Any help gratefully appreciated ...
Note : Am unable to send an image from my phone screen, but here's the route link ...
https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/7810275
The turn I referred to is early in the route - on the D618 just before Camors.
My Nav wanted to follow the set route via the shaping points. Mike's wanted to send him straight on via Avajan etc and skipping multiple shaping points.@Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
the same functional settings
Did you look at the setting that are shown in the first screen after opening a route for navigation too?
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Hi all,
I understand about the placement of waypoints, but that doesn't address the main point of my issue which is ..
Why would 2 MRA apps with the same version and same downloaded maps, and sharing exactly the same route ... make different route choices?
Cheers, Jem
@Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
I understand about the placement of waypoints, but that doesn't address the main point
I think it does... Obviously your pal Mike skipped WP2 somehow. Be it by an unintended manual skip, or by a premature skipping by the app itself. Long-pressing WP2 would have put you in the same direction again. My pictures above illustrate that skipping only WP2 has the effect you experienced.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
the same functional settings
Did you look at the setting that are shown in the first screen after opening a route for navigation too?
@Jack-van-Tilburg, Those settings are deemed to be equal for them both, since they are inherited from the online route nowadays. Unless they were altered manually before starting the route of course.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Jack-van-Tilburg, Those settings are deemed to be equal for them both, since they are inherited from the online route nowadays. Unless they were altered manually before starting the route of course.
@Con-Hennekens
So is a difference ruled out? -
@Con-Hennekens
So is a difference ruled out?@Jack-van-Tilburg, if not altered manually at the location you show, I think yes.
If the impact of the routing options was that big, it would already be visible in the route overview window where you press Start too.Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Jack-van-Tilburg, if not altered manually at the location you show, I think yes.
If the impact of the routing options was that big, it would already be visible in the route overview window where you press Start too.Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?
@Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?
Yes it does. More then mine i should say.
But even your option doesn't exclude un unintended action of the user. -
@Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
Doesn't my explanation above sound more plausible, you think?
Yes it does. More then mine i should say.
But even your option doesn't exclude un unintended action of the user.@Jack-van-Tilburg, certainly not indeed.
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All your points are plain 'waypoints' / shaping points, which means they're not mandatory and can be skipped, should the routing engine dynamically decide it knows better.
Change one (or more) of the waypoints - say point 3 - to a 'via' point, i.e. a point that you must pass through. Then the routing engine should behave as you expect.
You can do that by tapping on the hand symbol (possibly teaching Grandma to suck eggs, here - sorry!):
I think the only downside to via points is if there's a road closure, serious traffic problem, etc, it will still attempt to get you to go through that 'via' point, which could cause some interesting routing.
For example if the road was closed a mile after your point 2 then the routing engine would do some complex re-routing to make sure you still got to point 3, whereas in real life, you might just think - 'forget it, let's go another route today'.All that fluff above doesn't explain why both instances of the app didn't behave in a similar manner, but it might help get them better aligned next time.
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All your points are plain 'waypoints' / shaping points, which means they're not mandatory and can be skipped, should the routing engine dynamically decide it knows better.
Change one (or more) of the waypoints - say point 3 - to a 'via' point, i.e. a point that you must pass through. Then the routing engine should behave as you expect.
You can do that by tapping on the hand symbol (possibly teaching Grandma to suck eggs, here - sorry!):
I think the only downside to via points is if there's a road closure, serious traffic problem, etc, it will still attempt to get you to go through that 'via' point, which could cause some interesting routing.
For example if the road was closed a mile after your point 2 then the routing engine would do some complex re-routing to make sure you still got to point 3, whereas in real life, you might just think - 'forget it, let's go another route today'.All that fluff above doesn't explain why both instances of the app didn't behave in a similar manner, but it might help get them better aligned next time.
@richtea999, It seems I keep repeating myself, but my pictures above show that even if WP3 was a viapoint, by skipping WP2 the navigation would take the long way up north to WP3 because it is quicker than the winding roads down south.
Via points are used to indicate mandatory waypoints, nothing more. The ultimate reason why the deviation after skipping WP2 is so big, is that there are not enough shaping points in the route to force it down south.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@richtea999, It seems I keep repeating myself, but my pictures above show that even if WP3 was a viapoint, by skipping WP2 the navigation would take the long way up north to WP3 because it is quicker than the winding roads down south.
Via points are used to indicate mandatory waypoints, nothing more. The ultimate reason why the deviation after skipping WP2 is so big, is that there are not enough shaping points in the route to force it down south.
@Con-Hennekens You're right, Con - apologies. I have had similar oddities that seem to have been solved by using 'via' points. Maybe that was just luck.
Maybe the route planner needs an extra option:
- calculate shortest route
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@Con-Hennekens You're right, Con - apologies. I have had similar oddities that seem to have been solved by using 'via' points. Maybe that was just luck.
Maybe the route planner needs an extra option:
- calculate shortest route
@richtea999, if WP2 was a via point, then that one would not have been auto-skipped. But the same thing could happen for all other shaping points. A "shortest route" option would most likely have prevented TS his problem, but would also have introduced the same problem here:
It would have chosen the northern route instead of the southern one). The essence (still) being: not enough shaping points... There is no substitute for shaping points! Only driving a track maybe, but for that you'll have to give up waypoints altogether.
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@Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
I understand about the placement of waypoints, but that doesn't address the main point
I think it does... Obviously your pal Mike skipped WP2 somehow. Be it by an unintended manual skip, or by a premature skipping by the app itself. Long-pressing WP2 would have put you in the same direction again. My pictures above illustrate that skipping only WP2 has the effect you experienced.
Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.
... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...
ChJem
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Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.
... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...
ChJem
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software
To be able to explain a deviation/cause, you will have to rule out all possibilities.
Given that you you self indicate that all technical settings are basically the same, it makes sense to investigate whether an unintentionally human act can be the cause.
It's not an accusation. In fact, we are all curious about the cause, you can tell by the number of messages and possibilities in this topic. All based on help and interest. -
Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.
... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...
ChJem
@Jem-Cotton, I am not blaming anyone. I am trying to find a plausible explanation to an event no one else has been reporting to this extend. I guess it is easier to blame the software, than to look for potential human error... (easy saying, isn't it?)
Now that is out of of the way
: What I am trying to show (and seems to be difficult to grasp by many, proven by the replies I got) is that it is quite plausible that ONLY wp2 was skipped. The route goes up North but still towards WP3 quickest way. To reach WP3 you follow the route in reverse order along 5, 4, 3 so it looks like you are directed to 6.I took quite some effort in looking into your route and making the screenshots. Please tell me if you don't want me to help you, I'll stop, since I have better things to do than to help someone who does not appreciate it.
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Hiya. I could understand Mike maybe missing one waypoint (Wp2) by accident (though highly unlikely in my opinion), but not the others. Mike's route would have to skip past wp 3 - 4 - 5 .... in order for his route to be valid, and wind up taking us to wp6.
... and no, he didn't long press a further waypoint. We're both experienced users of MRA and know how to both read and manipulate the nav on the move.
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...
ChJem
@Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...
Of course, there could be an error in the software. I believe that all software contains errors to some extent. However, no one here has said that it's your fault! Considering the many responses to guide you in the right direction, I don't think anyone holds it against you. Instead, I would suggest taking the recommendations given to heart when compiling your next route.
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Routelab on MacBook Air & iMac (Sequoia & Monterey) -
@Jem-Cotton said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
It's easier to blame a user i guess than look into a potential error in the software ...
Of course, there could be an error in the software. I believe that all software contains errors to some extent. However, no one here has said that it's your fault! Considering the many responses to guide you in the right direction, I don't think anyone holds it against you. Instead, I would suggest taking the recommendations given to heart when compiling your next route.
Thanks everyone for your interest and replies.
I'm not offended or anything, but wanted to point out that as fairly experienced users, it was highly unlikely that a waypoint was skipped by accident.
Mike and I use that functionality frequently, and with gloves on, it takes some purpose to achieve, especially as you have to confirm the choice.
For that reason, I ruled it out as a realistic explanation.
That leaves an unexplained difference between the two instances of the app, which for me is a little worrying.
I'll make sure to feature viapoints a little more liberally to try to prevent it in future.
Happy travels all.
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Thanks everyone for your interest and replies.
I'm not offended or anything, but wanted to point out that as fairly experienced users, it was highly unlikely that a waypoint was skipped by accident.
Mike and I use that functionality frequently, and with gloves on, it takes some purpose to achieve, especially as you have to confirm the choice.
For that reason, I ruled it out as a realistic explanation.
That leaves an unexplained difference between the two instances of the app, which for me is a little worrying.
I'll make sure to feature viapoints a little more liberally to try to prevent it in future.
Happy travels all.
@Jem-Cotton, I advise against that. It means that such a via point will NOT be skipped automatically if you miss it for whatever reason. That cure is probably worse than the disease. Besides, I already showed above that there is no substitute for enough waypoints.
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@Con-Hennekens said in Duelling Banjos with MyRouteApp:
I advise against that. It means that such a via point will NOT be skipped automatically if you miss it for whatever reason. That cure is probably worse than the disease.
It's an interesting problem. The OP builds a route to ride, but the router says no. It doesn't offer an explanation as to why the planned route is being deviated from. Google does in terms of 'Shorter route available' type suggestions.
Maybe an explanation popup just before the deviation point would solve a lot of the routing problems reported. I've also had similar issues with closed roads causing the routing engine to appear to misbehave because there was no (obvious) explanation given. The router was doing it's best, but as a user it's not always obvious why the route changes.
