Google's location
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I'll make sure this is investigated a bit more by us
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@richtea999, I don't understand what's blocking you. You can continue without the "better experience", you just can't stop location services. But location services runs just fine without the "improved location accuracy" (which does not improve anything if you ask me).
MRA has set nothing yet concerning the minimum system requirements, and I don't think it is up to us what they will support. Good find about AA though. That was just me guessing indeed.
Valued contributorwrote on 5 Jun 2023, 15:10 last edited by richtea999 6 May 2023, 15:11@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@richtea999, I don't understand what's blocking you. You can continue without the "better experience", you just can't stop location services.
For Corjan, whenever you come back round to investigating:
Video of the app being locked out by having 'Google Location Accuracy' off which shows:- repeated tapping of 'No, thanks' and it pops up again
- location is enabled when I pull down the Settings
But location services runs just fine without the "improved location accuracy" (which does not improve anything if you ask me).
It improves accuracy at the expense of privacy. That's why the option is there. Personally, Google knows far too much about me already
, but others may want that option.MRA has set nothing yet concerning the minimum system requirements, and I don't think it is up to us what they will support. Good find about AA though. That was just me guessing indeed.
They have to set a minimum supported OS level, quite generously at Android 6. That minimum determines which APIs (i.e. code libraries) are available when coding. In general the higher the minimum, the easier it is to code (better libraries, less chances for apps to crash, better support from Google & StackOverflow, improved security, etc), but with a small loss of potential users - around 2% of users in the case of Android 6.
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@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@richtea999, I don't understand what's blocking you. You can continue without the "better experience", you just can't stop location services.
For Corjan, whenever you come back round to investigating:
Video of the app being locked out by having 'Google Location Accuracy' off which shows:- repeated tapping of 'No, thanks' and it pops up again
- location is enabled when I pull down the Settings
But location services runs just fine without the "improved location accuracy" (which does not improve anything if you ask me).
It improves accuracy at the expense of privacy. That's why the option is there. Personally, Google knows far too much about me already
, but others may want that option.MRA has set nothing yet concerning the minimum system requirements, and I don't think it is up to us what they will support. Good find about AA though. That was just me guessing indeed.
They have to set a minimum supported OS level, quite generously at Android 6. That minimum determines which APIs (i.e. code libraries) are available when coding. In general the higher the minimum, the easier it is to code (better libraries, less chances for apps to crash, better support from Google & StackOverflow, improved security, etc), but with a small loss of potential users - around 2% of users in the case of Android 6.
@richtea999 said in Google's location:
Video of the app being locked out by having 'Google Location Accuracy' off
Ah, I see
...@richtea999 said in Google's location:
It improves accuracy at the expense of privacy.
Actually I think it disturbs accuracy at the expense of privacy. What it does is help get a quicker fix if you move your phone over great distances being shut down (or location being shut off). Another thing that does the same is the IP of your internet connection, or the location of the cell-tower with which you connect. And if all is turned off, your privacy simply gets violated first chance of a working connection in retrospect. Honestly, if I wanted to avoid google knowing where I am I would surrender to the other big brother... (or by a garmin). All which does not make the bug okay of course...
@richtea999 said in Google's location:
They have to set a minimum supported OS level, quite generously at Android 6.
Why would they "Have to" do that?
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@richtea999 said in Google's location:
Video of the app being locked out by having 'Google Location Accuracy' off
Ah, I see
...@richtea999 said in Google's location:
It improves accuracy at the expense of privacy.
Actually I think it disturbs accuracy at the expense of privacy. What it does is help get a quicker fix if you move your phone over great distances being shut down (or location being shut off). Another thing that does the same is the IP of your internet connection, or the location of the cell-tower with which you connect. And if all is turned off, your privacy simply gets violated first chance of a working connection in retrospect. Honestly, if I wanted to avoid google knowing where I am I would surrender to the other big brother... (or by a garmin). All which does not make the bug okay of course...
@richtea999 said in Google's location:
They have to set a minimum supported OS level, quite generously at Android 6.
Why would they "Have to" do that?
Valued contributorwrote on 5 Jun 2023, 19:25 last edited by richtea999 6 May 2023, 19:26@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@richtea999 said in Google's location:
They have to set a minimum supported OS level, quite generously at Android 6.
Why would they "Have to" do that?
At risk of going waaayyyy off-thread if you want to make use any of Google's services (like the 'enhanced' location discussed) then you have to have at least Android 4.4.
For Android 6 there was a major change in the OS where permissions became opt-in. Before that, apps could just suck information about the device and user with aplomb. That's the usual reason why 6 might be a sensible minimum to build for.
Moving further up the OS versions, Google is well known for forcing app developers to support higher versions of OS. Note those are 'target' API levels not minimum, but as a developer you have to jump the hoops. They've been doing it since 2017, and it's a royal pain. However, I can also see why they do it. The main reasons are:
- to force apps to meet the best security. Older libraries will have holes.
- performance is generally better in the newer libraries
- to avoid Google's library authors from having to support ancient devices ('ancient' being say 5 years old)
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@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@richtea999 said in Google's location:
They have to set a minimum supported OS level, quite generously at Android 6.
Why would they "Have to" do that?
At risk of going waaayyyy off-thread if you want to make use any of Google's services (like the 'enhanced' location discussed) then you have to have at least Android 4.4.
For Android 6 there was a major change in the OS where permissions became opt-in. Before that, apps could just suck information about the device and user with aplomb. That's the usual reason why 6 might be a sensible minimum to build for.
Moving further up the OS versions, Google is well known for forcing app developers to support higher versions of OS. Note those are 'target' API levels not minimum, but as a developer you have to jump the hoops. They've been doing it since 2017, and it's a royal pain. However, I can also see why they do it. The main reasons are:
- to force apps to meet the best security. Older libraries will have holes.
- performance is generally better in the newer libraries
- to avoid Google's library authors from having to support ancient devices ('ancient' being say 5 years old)
@richtea999, That is great information and I can see you are knowledgeable about it. But I still think it is up to the developer what they write in their minimum system requirements, and what they want to actively support. People seem eager to use old unused phones to mount on their bikes, but that can hardly deliver a good first impression that way. It might be better to aim a bit higher.
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I'll make sure this is investigated a bit more by us
wrote on 19 Jun 2023, 17:14 last edited by@Corjan-Meijerink said in Google's location:
I'll make sure this is investigated a bit more by us
I see the app has now gone live with this issue. It doesn't work on any of my devices with Google Location Accuracy turned off. I cannot test or use the app.
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wrote on 29 Jun 2023, 15:17 last edited by
Is anyone working on this? I still cannot use the app and another release has gone by.
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Is anyone working on this? I still cannot use the app and another release has gone by.
@Whinging-Biker, Have you tried resetting your phone to factory defaults? I think it is a bit harsh to claim the issue as a bug since no-one else seems to have this problem. It likely is a phone or software issue on your device.
Have you tried MRA on your devices also outdoors, or only from your couch or kitchen table? What I am think about is this: if you live in "Faraday cage", google location services will, with the absence of GPS data, entirely depend on the "improved accuracy" wifi/bluetooth signals. Hence perhaps the question about the setting, and not being able to "No thanks" it.
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There are code work-arounds that should let the user continue to use the app without Google's 'enhanced' accuracy.
A few discussions here for MRA to have a read:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/56510590/avoiding-googles-prompt-when-trying-to-get-location
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There are code work-arounds that should let the user continue to use the app without Google's 'enhanced' accuracy.
A few discussions here for MRA to have a read:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/56510590/avoiding-googles-prompt-when-trying-to-get-location
@richtea999, What I was aimin at was, if there is no GPS data (because of buildings constructions or other blockage, the app might depend entirely on wifi and BT signals, and throw that message.
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@Whinging-Biker, Have you tried resetting your phone to factory defaults? I think it is a bit harsh to claim the issue as a bug since no-one else seems to have this problem. It likely is a phone or software issue on your device.
Have you tried MRA on your devices also outdoors, or only from your couch or kitchen table? What I am think about is this: if you live in "Faraday cage", google location services will, with the absence of GPS data, entirely depend on the "improved accuracy" wifi/bluetooth signals. Hence perhaps the question about the setting, and not being able to "No thanks" it.
wrote on 4 Jul 2023, 22:08 last edited by Whinging Biker 7 Apr 2023, 22:09@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@Whinging-Biker, Have you tried resetting your phone to factory defaults? I think it is a bit harsh to claim the issue as a bug since no-one else seems to have this problem. It likely is a phone or software issue on your device.
Have you tried MRA on your devices also outdoors, or only from your couch or kitchen table? What I am think about is this: if you live in "Faraday cage", google location services will, with the absence of GPS data, entirely depend on the "improved accuracy" wifi/bluetooth signals. Hence perhaps the question about the setting, and not being able to "No thanks" it.
2 other users reported the same issue on 3 June in this thread. My new phone and my wife's new phone have the same problem.
It's a bug. -
@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@Whinging-Biker, Have you tried resetting your phone to factory defaults? I think it is a bit harsh to claim the issue as a bug since no-one else seems to have this problem. It likely is a phone or software issue on your device.
Have you tried MRA on your devices also outdoors, or only from your couch or kitchen table? What I am think about is this: if you live in "Faraday cage", google location services will, with the absence of GPS data, entirely depend on the "improved accuracy" wifi/bluetooth signals. Hence perhaps the question about the setting, and not being able to "No thanks" it.
2 other users reported the same issue on 3 June in this thread. My new phone and my wife's new phone have the same problem.
It's a bug.Alpha testerwrote on 5 Jul 2023, 06:57 last edited by Con Hennekens 7 May 2023, 07:02@Whinging-Biker, Whatever you want... There is a developers saying "It is not a bug until the developer says it's a bug". There are simply too many users NOT having this problem, while the problem seems to center around your household. Me too are trying to establish it as a bug, but since you are not answering my questions, I will stop asking them.
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Valued contributorwrote on 5 Jul 2023, 09:31 last edited by richtea999 7 May 2023, 11:48
@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@Whinging-Biker, Whatever you want... There is a developers saying "It is not a bug until the developer says it's a bug". There are simply too many users NOT having this problem, while the problem seems to center around your household. Me too are trying to establish it as a bug, but since you are not answering my questions, I will stop asking them.
It's easily reproducible, Con. This is on Android 12, note, so it's nothing to do with old Android versions. I'd call it 'an unnecessary limitation verging on a bug'.
Here's how to recreate it - just 2 steps really:
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Settings -> Location -> Google Location Accuracy -> Disable it
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Open MRA, and you immediately get offered two options. Pick 'No, thanks' and you're stuck in an endless loop, i.e. you can't use the app:
And see this video from earlier in the thread:
http://www.poqit.com/MRA-loc.mp4I think the point Whinging-Biker is making (quite aggressively, unfortunately) is that a single Google sub-option shouldn't disable the app, especially when location is enabled, the popup suggests its merely a 'better experience', and the detailed option page (2nd image above) says GPS will still be used.
I'm sure there's a work-around, but I can also imagine it's not the highest priority. One for the backlog!
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wrote on 5 Jul 2023, 11:52 last edited by
OsmAnd implemented an option for us to select if we want to use Google API or Native Android API for location services, and I think MRA should do the same.
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@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@Whinging-Biker, Whatever you want... There is a developers saying "It is not a bug until the developer says it's a bug". There are simply too many users NOT having this problem, while the problem seems to center around your household. Me too are trying to establish it as a bug, but since you are not answering my questions, I will stop asking them.
It's easily reproducible, Con. This is on Android 12, note, so it's nothing to do with old Android versions. I'd call it 'an unnecessary limitation verging on a bug'.
Here's how to recreate it - just 2 steps really:
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Settings -> Location -> Google Location Accuracy -> Disable it
-
Open MRA, and you immediately get offered two options. Pick 'No, thanks' and you're stuck in an endless loop, i.e. you can't use the app:
And see this video from earlier in the thread:
http://www.poqit.com/MRA-loc.mp4I think the point Whinging-Biker is making (quite aggressively, unfortunately) is that a single Google sub-option shouldn't disable the app, especially when location is enabled, the popup suggests its merely a 'better experience', and the detailed option page (2nd image above) says GPS will still be used.
I'm sure there's a work-around, but I can also imagine it's not the highest priority. One for the backlog!
@richtea999, the funny thing is that it is NOT so easily reproducible, since I have been using the app from the get go without ever enabling that stupid improvement function. At least we all agree that we don't want to use that
Another funny thing is that in our alpha group, we have one user that all of a sudden is also having this problem, he discovered it today. We have already been doing some testing, indoors/outdoors, with GPS fix/without GPS fix, checked the presence of a "real" compass (instead of fake direction data from the GPS stream). But have not found any plausible cause yet.
Interesting is that Dev tells me that the message does NOT originate from the app, but from the OS. That does not make it easier...
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@richtea999, the funny thing is that it is NOT so easily reproducible, since I have been using the app from the get go without ever enabling that stupid improvement function. At least we all agree that we don't want to use that
Another funny thing is that in our alpha group, we have one user that all of a sudden is also having this problem, he discovered it today. We have already been doing some testing, indoors/outdoors, with GPS fix/without GPS fix, checked the presence of a "real" compass (instead of fake direction data from the GPS stream). But have not found any plausible cause yet.
Interesting is that Dev tells me that the message does NOT originate from the app, but from the OS. That does not make it easier...
Valued contributorwrote on 5 Jul 2023, 17:00 last edited by richtea999 7 May 2023, 21:13@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@richtea999, the funny thing is that it is NOT so easily reproducible
It's 100% reproducible for me:
- indoors and outdoors
- on Android 8.0 & Android 12.0
- 3 devices (OnePlus, Samsung, Ulefone)
So I'm happy to test if you want to (temporarily) add me to your alpha testers list when you have a potential solution. Just give me a shout.
[Edit: works OK on my Android 13. That's the only one.]
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@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@richtea999, the funny thing is that it is NOT so easily reproducible
It's 100% reproducible for me:
- indoors and outdoors
- on Android 8.0 & Android 12.0
- 3 devices (OnePlus, Samsung, Ulefone)
So I'm happy to test if you want to (temporarily) add me to your alpha testers list when you have a potential solution. Just give me a shout.
[Edit: works OK on my Android 13. That's the only one.]
@richtea999, it is good to know that at least one of your devices handles this correctly. That rules out a lot of location based problems. When the dev team gets an idea of the cause of this strange issue, we will certainly let you know in this thread I think that can be tested excellently within the Beta program.
Since the request popup to enable the "improved" Location Accuracy seems to originate from the OS instead of the app, it might well be an Android bug we are running into.
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We’ll definitely have a look again
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@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
@Whinging-Biker, Whatever you want... There is a developers saying "It is not a bug until the developer says it's a bug". There are simply too many users NOT having this problem, while the problem seems to center around your household. Me too are trying to establish it as a bug, but since you are not answering my questions, I will stop asking them.
It's easily reproducible, Con. This is on Android 12, note, so it's nothing to do with old Android versions. I'd call it 'an unnecessary limitation verging on a bug'.
Here's how to recreate it - just 2 steps really:
-
Settings -> Location -> Google Location Accuracy -> Disable it
-
Open MRA, and you immediately get offered two options. Pick 'No, thanks' and you're stuck in an endless loop, i.e. you can't use the app:
And see this video from earlier in the thread:
http://www.poqit.com/MRA-loc.mp4I think the point Whinging-Biker is making (quite aggressively, unfortunately) is that a single Google sub-option shouldn't disable the app, especially when location is enabled, the popup suggests its merely a 'better experience', and the detailed option page (2nd image above) says GPS will still be used.
I'm sure there's a work-around, but I can also imagine it's not the highest priority. One for the backlog!
wrote on 17 Jul 2023, 10:01 last edited by@richtea999 said in Google's location:
I think the point Whinging-Biker is making (quite aggressively, unfortunately) is that a single Google sub-option shouldn't disable the app, especially when location is enabled, the popup suggests its merely a 'better experience', and the detailed option page (2nd image above) says GPS will still be used.
I apologise if I seemed 'quite aggressive'. Quite frustrated maybe.
After comments such as
"Android 7? In that case I'm not surprised something like this happens"
and
"you could try to revive your blackview"and then a claim that no one else has reported this problem when this person has been in conversation on this thread with 2 other people reporting this same problem more than 3 weeks before:
30/6/23 - Con Hennekens
@Whinging-Biker, Have you tried resetting your phone to factory defaults? I think it is a bit harsh to claim the issue as a bug since no- one else seems to have this problem. It likely is a phone or software issue on your device.3/6/23 - @Con-Hennekens I have the same, if I try to turn off Google location services I get repeated messages to turn it on and the app won't work without it. Samsung S22+ latest version of Android. 4/6/23 - It blocks me on Android 12 too so something is not quite right, but it's not the Android / API level. 5/6/23 - For Corjan, whenever you come back round to investigating: Video of the app being locked out by having 'Google Location Accuracy' off which shows: repeated tapping of 'No, thanks' and it pops up again location is enabled when I pull down the SettingsAlso three other apps have been noted here as needing to code specifically to avoid this problem.
In this thread it has shown up in Android 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 on Blackview, Huawei, OnePlus, Samsung and Ulefone. Surely it cannot be just a problem 'in my household'?
All of the devices in my household have this same issue:
Blackview Android 7
Blackview Android 10 (x2)
Huawei Android 9
Samsung Android 11 -
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@richtea999 said in Google's location:
I think the point Whinging-Biker is making (quite aggressively, unfortunately) is that a single Google sub-option shouldn't disable the app, especially when location is enabled, the popup suggests its merely a 'better experience', and the detailed option page (2nd image above) says GPS will still be used.
I apologise if I seemed 'quite aggressive'. Quite frustrated maybe.
After comments such as
"Android 7? In that case I'm not surprised something like this happens"
and
"you could try to revive your blackview"and then a claim that no one else has reported this problem when this person has been in conversation on this thread with 2 other people reporting this same problem more than 3 weeks before:
30/6/23 - Con Hennekens
@Whinging-Biker, Have you tried resetting your phone to factory defaults? I think it is a bit harsh to claim the issue as a bug since no- one else seems to have this problem. It likely is a phone or software issue on your device.3/6/23 - @Con-Hennekens I have the same, if I try to turn off Google location services I get repeated messages to turn it on and the app won't work without it. Samsung S22+ latest version of Android. 4/6/23 - It blocks me on Android 12 too so something is not quite right, but it's not the Android / API level. 5/6/23 - For Corjan, whenever you come back round to investigating: Video of the app being locked out by having 'Google Location Accuracy' off which shows: repeated tapping of 'No, thanks' and it pops up again location is enabled when I pull down the SettingsAlso three other apps have been noted here as needing to code specifically to avoid this problem.
In this thread it has shown up in Android 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 on Blackview, Huawei, OnePlus, Samsung and Ulefone. Surely it cannot be just a problem 'in my household'?
All of the devices in my household have this same issue:
Blackview Android 7
Blackview Android 10 (x2)
Huawei Android 9
Samsung Android 11@Whinging-Biker, I think my statement about Android 7 is not so far fetched, since it has been abandoned by Google since 2020. What do you think you can expect from an app developer in such a case?
@Con-Hennekens said in Google's location:
Since the request popup to enable the "improved" Location Accuracy seems to originate from the OS instead of the app, it might well be an Android bug we are running into.
The developer already claimed that the message you are getting does not originate from within the app.
@richtea999 said in Google's location:
I think the point Whinging-Biker is making // is that a single Google sub-option shouldn't disable the app.
The app does not do that, the proof is in the pudding of the many users NOT having that problem.
The dev team nevertheless promised to look into it.
@Whinging-Biker said in Google's location:
Surely it cannot be just a problem 'in my household'?
I don't know. All the above shows "it surely cannot be the app". Truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But you obviously make a job of nailing "privacy" down on your phones. It could be an unpredicted outcome of a combination of a lot of privacy settings. Who can say. Android is a lot more complex than the app in that regard. I understand frustration to some extend, but there is no need for any angryness.
