Another Erratic Routing Incident

[John S Parry]

@Brian-McG First, as far as my "doomed" statement, it goes back to the run where I had "Skip Waypoints automatically" enabled. As I mentioned, it didn't respond for WP#7 (too far delayed) until I was almost on top of WP#8. And then when I passed WP#8, the app started trying to re-route me back to WP#8. Nothing was making sense, so I stopped the route. Being on the road, I wasn't in any position to diagnose what I was experiencing. Safety first.

From my experience, I don't necessarily agree with the issues with Garmins are all around the "recalculate" function. I've been using Garmin GPS units since the BMW Nav4. I continued with the Nav5, Nav6, Zumo XT, and now the Zumo XT3. I skipped the XT2 for various reasons. Mostly, because Garmin was starting to change the focus of their GPS units. They're transitioning to trying to get all their products to communicate with each other (marketing/sales), and frankly, the XT2 was a bad first attempt. It made route creation more complex and troublesome. The XT3 retains much of the XT2 framework, but it's more stable, at least from the research I've done.

Continuing, Garmin Off-Route Recalculation is by no means perfect. But for the most part, it's been effective for me. I use it judiciously in situations where I'm confident that I know what to expect. Like any responsibility offloaded to Navigation SW, it's not a get out of jail free card for all situations. Hence, what I experienced with the MRA app "Skip Waypoints automatically" in this WP#7 situation. It didn't work. Sometimes, the best option is to do nothing, which the Garmin Zumos support. Wait until the GPS detects you're back on route, and it magically reengages. As you noted, this is a feature lacking in MRA.

For me, much comes down to routing philosophy. I believe routes are meant to be followed as planned. When I lead complex trips, I spend hours and hours researching how to construct a given route. I try to think of every contingency imaginable. So, what I see on my computer screen when I'm creating a route in MRA is what I expect to see and follow on my Garmin XT3 or the MRA app. Along this line, I never turn offroute auto-recalculation on within Garmins. I use the "Prompted" option which gives me the real-time choice of putting the route to sleep, or recalculate as I did on the last WP#7 run I described. My starting position is that I'd much rather find my own way back from a route deviation/issue. Again, when I create a route in MRA I want to follow it exactly, and if I do have to deviate from it, I want to decide how to get back on it. Planned deviations are what happens most of the time, and I trust myself with the Garmin sleep option more than most SW. Of course, the complexity of off-route situation dictates approach. That's a complex topic in and of itself.

There are many more important issues than offroute recalculation when deciding between phone navigation and a GPS. For instance, the quality of the navigation map isn't given enough attention. Just one example -- the Garmin 3D Terrain map imposed on the detailed street map is striking. It could be my ignorance, but I haven't found an MRA map view that's even close. And the "Up Ahead" feature is a subject in and of itself. I can tell stories on the value of this Garmin specific function. I haven't even got into the physical durability of a standalone GPS vs. a phone. Living in a hot climate, it's night and day.

I will continue to play with the MRA app. I'm a big believer in having backups of everything, and the app seems good enough to serve as a backup to the Zumo XT3 for route execution if something happens to it on a trip.

[John S Parry]

Brian: Your XT2 experiment obviously didn't turn out well, and I perfectly get your frustration. You didn't mention having experience with previous Garmin devices, so I'm guessing this was your first (and probably last) experience.

As I mentioned in my last post, the XT2 was Garmin's first serious attempt to connect their devices together. Architecturally, they try to attempt this using what they call the Explore DB that exists in their Server Cloud. The problem with Explore is that it can seriously alter a route. If you read Garmin forums, it's been the source of endless mind-numbing frustration.

Most XT2 users fall into it without even knowing. During installation of the Garmin Tread app, you're asked if you want to use external storage. On the surface, who would like that? Answer yes, and you go down a rat hole that many users regret. Knowing the history of Explore, I said NO when prompted in Tread. The only thing I use Tread for is Traffic/Weather alerts, and a really slick connection for my Headsets to XT3 (I have both Cardo and Sena Helmets). That's it. Furthermore, I manually copy all my GPX routes (wired) directly from my computer to the GPX folder on my SD Card within the XT3. Of course, it's recalculated on the XT3 side, but no manipulation by any other layer.

I'm guessing Explore is the source of having all your routes messed up. If you ever want to get a degree in everything Zumo, check out the following website:

https://zumouserforums.co.uk/

It's a treasure chest of everything Zumo XT, and a must resource for anybody who owns a Zumo or is thinking about it.

[Brian McG]

sorry @John-S-Parry this has nothing to do with getting routes/files onto a garmin & I know that explorer & just about every piece of connecting software garmin saysdecides is flavour of the year is a pile of ........

I do have experience of Gamins going back multi - mutli years, the routing algorithm has not changed
the advice not to enable the recalculate function is decades old

as for the zumo forums lmao https://zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=18008&hilit=bmcg#p18008

[John S Parry]

@Brian-McG @brian-mcg You're right. This has nothing directly to do with transferring files other than it being one of the pieces that ensure Zumos operate correctly as navigation devices. If that doesn't interest you, so be it.

BTW, Garmin GPS routing algorithms have changed over the years, pre-Zumo you could take a Basecamp route calculation to the bank in that it would 100% match when recalculated in the Garmin GPS. That's no longer the case. I'm surprised you didn't know this given your "mult-multi years" Garmin experience.

To the topic, this discussion has everything to do with:

1. The HERE map not placing the road where it actually is.
2. The MRA app recognizing the map discrepancy, but the Web Routeplanner not showing any overt alert. Sync should actually mean Sync.
3. The MRA "Skip Waypoints automatically" enabled not working in this scenario.

I was able to dynamically enable the XT3 to successfully recalculate at WP#7, so what's with the blanket "advice not to enable the recalculate function is decades old"? Nothing is absolute, yet you're hanging your hat on it. Odd.

I'm trying to be transparent and reasonable, and I can say with complete honestly that the XT3 worked better than the MRA app in successfully routing the section from WP#7 to WP#8. If this had not been a verification test, and I was just routing with the XT3 (forgetting the app), I probably wouldn't have known there was a problem at all. I would have been on the straighter section on top of the mountain ridge before being able to look down at the route, and I wouldn't have seen that the XT3 handled the situation without any intervention.

Again, thank you for helping me unravel what happened. We obviously don't agree on some things, but I appreciate the input you provided.