Battery drain
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@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
@M-Schrijver said in Battery drain:
Personally is suspect recalculation while riding is the main cause of the battery drain.
It is not the recalculation, it is the rendering of the map, that already has been established. Is far as I know there have not been any claims before that indicate that recalculation has an influence. Recalculations are usually very short, so I don't think that is it.
I did not know that.
But why is the battery usage a lot higher when there are many recalcultions in a route compare to no or nearly no recalculations.
Map renderings are not that different for a whole day/tripA little sidenote. The day i had a high battery usage. The Data usage was also enormous. Almost 500 MB for a 180 km ride. That's idiot. This means a 10 day holiday could cost me 4-5 GB's
The day with a low battery usage had also a lower data usage. Around 80 MB for also a 180 km ride. Still a high usage to my opinion. TomTom Go uses around 10 MB for the same route. But data usage is a different topic.@M-Schrijver said in Battery drain:
But why is the battery usage a lot higher when there are many recalcultions in a route compare to no or nearly no recalculations.
I have never noticed that, nor have there been others that mentioned that as far as I remember. You must consider that a recalculations take place in a second. How much energy would that consume in such a short time?
Map renderings are not that different for a whole day/trip
Rendering a map which continuously moves draws power continuously. Albeit in the HERE SDK too much.
The Data usage was also enormous. Almost 500 MB for a 180 km ride.
I have not been paying a lot of attention to data consumption lately. But I know from a 6 day trip last year that it was almost negligible as long as you have downloaded your maps for offline use. If you have not done that, 500MB for live caching of map data sounds like a lot, but not impossible I think. I think if you keep driving in the same areas, the data comes out of cache. Therefore you will likely not need 4 GB of mapdata for a 10 days holiday. But I can't be sure of that.
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Yes, i know.
But i've noticed something.
When you follow the route exactly as planned in advance. And because of this no recalculation are needed. The battery usage is almost on par with other apps like Google maps, Waze or TomTom Go.But when you have a bad route which needs multiple recalculations especially within in few kilometers. The juice is sucked out of the battery very quickly.
The other day i went from 90 to 80% in two hours. I had 2 recalculations in this time. Then i went from 80 to 50% in 30 min. In this period i had multiple recalculations in a small area (roads closed, wrong roads, etc).
The last part was 1 hour with one recalculation and went from 50 to 44%My first route this year was a very well known route (for me). The route was therefore exact. It is a 4 hour ride. No recalculations needed. I went from 100% to 95% in 4 hours. Still a bit high consumption but no problem for a riding a whole day.
@M-Schrijver Good for you if that seems to work for you! That most definitely has not been my experience at all. Once I have a pre planned route before hand, I typically follow it to a tee....battery drain is crazy nuts....
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@M-Schrijver Good for you if that seems to work for you! That most definitely has not been my experience at all. Once I have a pre planned route before hand, I typically follow it to a tee....battery drain is crazy nuts....
@GT-JWR Had the same problem yesterday with a 300ml route phone was on 100%Charge at start plugged into power on the bike, only lasted for about 130mls before it switched itself of as it was flat.
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@GT-JWR Had the same problem yesterday with a 300ml route phone was on 100%Charge at start plugged into power on the bike, only lasted for about 130mls before it switched itself of as it was flat.
@Andrew yep...my iphone hasn't actually turned off, but it goes into a power safe type mode where the screen goes so dim, I might as well just turn it off.....for 'critical' bike trips (where I am leading), it means I have to download the routes to my XT and use it. Really hope this issue gets resolved soon.
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@M-Schrijver said in Battery drain:
Personally is suspect recalculation while riding is the main cause of the battery drain.
It is not the recalculation, it is the rendering of the map, that already has been established. Is far as I know there have not been any claims before that indicate that recalculation has an influence. Recalculations are usually very short, so I don't think that is it.
@Drabslab said in Battery drain:
I more or less stopped using Next because of this battery issue.
Some phones suffer more from it than others. I suspect mainly higher-end phones suffer more. My daily Pixel 8Pro can keeps up with cable-charging, but not with wireless charging. On my Bike I use a CAT S52 and that one has no problem at all, charges almost as fast as always on the bike. Using the app "G-CPU" is saw that the cpu cores get maxed out while dragging the map on the screen. The rendering of the map is done by functions of the HERE SDK the app makes use of.
Saillant detail: HERE's own Here WeGo app suffers from the same problem (is built on the same SDK)...
@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
I suspect mainly higher-end phones suffer more
Hai Con,
My phone is not a high end phone. Its a simple Samsung A-32.
It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby
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@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
I suspect mainly higher-end phones suffer more
Hai Con,
My phone is not a high end phone. Its a simple Samsung A-32.
@Drabslab, Okay, good to know. So there must be other factors in play.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Drabslab, Okay, good to know. So there must be other factors in play.
I might be wrong but understand that a few weeks ago there were a number of days planned together with Here people to invest and hopefully solve the battery drain issue. Does anybody know the results because I haven't seen any information yet.
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I might be wrong but understand that a few weeks ago there were a number of days planned together with Here people to invest and hopefully solve the battery drain issue. Does anybody know the results because I haven't seen any information yet.
@Arno-0 they are working on it and we have reported further feedback and provided more information. Is it painstaking? Yes. Am I doing everything in my power? Yes.
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@Arno-0 they are working on it and we have reported further feedback and provided more information. Is it painstaking? Yes. Am I doing everything in my power? Yes.
@Corjan-Meijerink Thanks for the update. I'm convinced that you do everything that is possible to solve this issue but waiting is always difficult
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@GT-JWR Had the same problem yesterday with a 300ml route phone was on 100%Charge at start plugged into power on the bike, only lasted for about 130mls before it switched itself of as it was flat.
@Andrew Have found information on line when a phone gets down to a certain cold temperature it will stop charging to protect the Battery. Here in England I was out in 8 deg Celsius so the wind chill factor would of been a lot colder as phone is out in the open on a mount, am wondering if this is some of the problem along with excessive Battery Drain.
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@Andrew Have found information on line when a phone gets down to a certain cold temperature it will stop charging to protect the Battery. Here in England I was out in 8 deg Celsius so the wind chill factor would of been a lot colder as phone is out in the open on a mount, am wondering if this is some of the problem along with excessive Battery Drain.
@Andrew, I cannot speak from experience, but I think that chance is very small. For most people the heat due to the drain alone would be enough to keep the battery temperature in the charging window.
Is that really a thing for phones? I heard likewise for electric vehicle below minus 20 degrees Celsius, but never for a phone...
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Andrew, I cannot speak from experience, but I think that chance is very small. For most people the heat due to the drain alone would be enough to keep the battery temperature in the charging window.
Is that really a thing for phones? I heard likewise for electric vehicle below minus 20 degrees Celsius, but never for a phone...
@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
I heard likewise for electric vehicle below minus 20 degrees Celsius, but never for a phone
A battery does not know where it is installed, but does in all cases react to temperature. For phones this is usually not a problem because we usually carry it in our pocket and we act as heating system.
It also depends on the chemical composition of the battery, some are more impacted by cold or heat than other types.
It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby
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@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
I heard likewise for electric vehicle below minus 20 degrees Celsius, but never for a phone
A battery does not know where it is installed, but does in all cases react to temperature. For phones this is usually not a problem because we usually carry it in our pocket and we act as heating system.
It also depends on the chemical composition of the battery, some are more impacted by cold or heat than other types.
@Drabslab, True of course, but also dependant on the implemented systems. For an EV in northern Norway it can be meaningful to limit chargeing below certain temperatures. Also they can have electrical warming available for rising the temperature of the battery before charging. For a phone battery it seems not very likely to have implemented lower temperature limits.
Anyway, if my car refuses to charge underway, I would very much like to be able to call someone...
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Drabslab, True of course, but also dependant on the implemented systems. For an EV in northern Norway it can be meaningful to limit chargeing below certain temperatures. Also they can have electrical warming available for rising the temperature of the battery before charging. For a phone battery it seems not very likely to have implemented lower temperature limits.
Anyway, if my car refuses to charge underway, I would very much like to be able to call someone...
@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
Also they can have electrical warming available for rising the temperature of the battery before charging.
This would not be a complete novelty.
In very cold area's they used to have electrical heating installed in the oil can of cars to keep the oil warm when being parked;
and there are systems working on diesel to heat up the water of engines (and the interior of the cars for the same purpose.
However, the battery technology is still evolving at huge speed. A company is now claiming they have an optimised chemistry allowing very fast charging and not having any influence of temperature.
Internal combustion engines have evolved over 100+? years and have only achieved a 25% efficiency.
Battery electrical vehicles, after a few decades of development are already beating those ICE cars in many aspects (efficiency 95%, unreal acceleration, low maintenance ...) and work is being done to overcome the weaknesses.
It is not difficult, it is easy, it's a hobby
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@Drabslab, True of course, but also dependant on the implemented systems. For an EV in northern Norway it can be meaningful to limit chargeing below certain temperatures. Also they can have electrical warming available for rising the temperature of the battery before charging. For a phone battery it seems not very likely to have implemented lower temperature limits.
Anyway, if my car refuses to charge underway, I would very much like to be able to call someone...
@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
For a phone battery it seems not very likely to have implemented lower temperature limits.
its a question of the battery internal chemistry mainly.
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@Con-Hennekens said in Battery drain:
Also they can have electrical warming available for rising the temperature of the battery before charging.
This would not be a complete novelty.
In very cold area's they used to have electrical heating installed in the oil can of cars to keep the oil warm when being parked;
and there are systems working on diesel to heat up the water of engines (and the interior of the cars for the same purpose.
However, the battery technology is still evolving at huge speed. A company is now claiming they have an optimised chemistry allowing very fast charging and not having any influence of temperature.
Internal combustion engines have evolved over 100+? years and have only achieved a 25% efficiency.
Battery electrical vehicles, after a few decades of development are already beating those ICE cars in many aspects (efficiency 95%, unreal acceleration, low maintenance ...) and work is being done to overcome the weaknesses.
@Drabslab, haha, I completely agree with all of that, and as far as I know heating of batteries in EV is already a thing in some EVs. I am all for EV, and in due time also for motorbikes. But let's not wake the anti-everything-movement and pollute our nice forum with it.
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My experience is that using dark mode and slightly dimming the screen solves the battery drainage issue. It's an illusion to think that you can drive for hours with any navigation without needing some charger. That's just not realistic, and such technology hasn’t been invented yet. The problem, as I see it, is actually quite simple. HERE has decided to use a lot of white in their display, which particularly burdens phones with large, bright screens. Other apps are not so "white" and consume less energy to illuminate the screen. I would say that some designer is to blame here, rather than the developers themselves. The developers probably did as they were instructed. And now it turns out that some low-resolution, dimly lit, small-screened “shitphone” performs better than top-of-the-line phones. Maybe I'm wrong, because it surprises me that nobody else has noticed this "whiteness". If I'm on the right track, and the folks at HERE haven’t noticed this design flaw... well, it won’t cost them much, I’ll drink a beer on their tab.
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My experience is that using dark mode and slightly dimming the screen solves the battery drainage issue. It's an illusion to think that you can drive for hours with any navigation without needing some charger. That's just not realistic, and such technology hasn’t been invented yet. The problem, as I see it, is actually quite simple. HERE has decided to use a lot of white in their display, which particularly burdens phones with large, bright screens. Other apps are not so "white" and consume less energy to illuminate the screen. I would say that some designer is to blame here, rather than the developers themselves. The developers probably did as they were instructed. And now it turns out that some low-resolution, dimly lit, small-screened “shitphone” performs better than top-of-the-line phones. Maybe I'm wrong, because it surprises me that nobody else has noticed this "whiteness". If I'm on the right track, and the folks at HERE haven’t noticed this design flaw... well, it won’t cost them much, I’ll drink a beer on their tab.
@Mario-Ivancic, your colorful opinion does not explain why for example the equally white Google Maps app does not suffer from the drain...
It has already been established that the rendering engine is the SDK is to blame. Whether a dark theme helps or not is dependant on the type of screen you have in your phone.Also the issue is not about draining the battery in hours, but draining the battery in hours DESPITE being charged simultaneously.
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app -
@Mario-Ivancic, your colorful opinion does not explain why for example the equally white Google Maps app does not suffer from the drain...
It has already been established that the rendering engine is the SDK is to blame. Whether a dark theme helps or not is dependant on the type of screen you have in your phone.Also the issue is not about draining the battery in hours, but draining the battery in hours DESPITE being charged simultaneously.
@Con-Hennekens
Well, at least to me, Google Maps seems darker. This is probably due to my professional bias since I work with printers and printer applications. Without actually testing the darkness level of both examples (yes i have tools for that), I would say, just by looking, that Google Maps is darker and would use more toner if printed in the same format. (Toner's like cash, so the darker sometnihg is, the more it itches me. )In any case, using a darker background will undoubtedly result in energy savings. Just like dark mode solves the problem for me.
Clearly, optimizing the code itself can't hurt. But changing to darker colors is a relatively simple solution. And can make some savings on energy that screen uses, for sure.
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@Con-Hennekens
Well, at least to me, Google Maps seems darker. This is probably due to my professional bias since I work with printers and printer applications. Without actually testing the darkness level of both examples (yes i have tools for that), I would say, just by looking, that Google Maps is darker and would use more toner if printed in the same format. (Toner's like cash, so the darker sometnihg is, the more it itches me. )In any case, using a darker background will undoubtedly result in energy savings. Just like dark mode solves the problem for me.
Clearly, optimizing the code itself can't hurt. But changing to darker colors is a relatively simple solution. And can make some savings on energy that screen uses, for sure.
@Mario-Ivancic said in Battery drain:
But changing to darker colors is a relatively simple solution. And can make some savings on energy that screen uses, for sure.
I am not denying that, it is just no solution for the battery drain due to a bug in the rendering engine. I'd say it is small beer compared to that
I am just an enthusiastic MRA user, and hope you will be one too!
Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebar to the saddle.
Streetpilot 2610/Zumo 660/Zumo 395/ CAT S52 + MRA app
